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MS Office Forum / Excel / New Users / July 20072007 Not Ready for Prime Time
Just a quick note that, IMHO, Excel 2007 is not ready for normal usage, particularly on XP (where it behaves oddly, e.g., fails to open up XLS files when you double-click them; it works better in Vista). But the biggest problem is that Excel 2007 interoperates very poorly with previous versions of Excel. I have some moderately large 2007 models (e.g., about 1MB on disk), and when I try to Save As to downrev them so that users of earlier versions of Excel can access them, it takes bloody darn forever. In fact, I don't know how long it takes because I've yet to actually let it finish (and I've waited for over 7 minutes, in one instance). Frankly, this program is shaping up to be a major embarrassment for the Office group at Microsoft, which was supposedly one of the better-run units. They're lucky they're a de facto monopoly, because, so far as I can see, that's the only thing that could be expected to drive uptake on this turkey. - Mark Do you have a multi-threaded processor? If not try turning it of under Excel Options calculation. This may help.  SignatureHTH Nick Hodge Microsoft MVP - Excel Southampton, England nick_hodgeTAKETHISOUT@zen.co.ukANDTHIS web: www.nickhodge.co.uk blog: www.nickhodge.co.uk/blog/ FREE UK OFFICE USER GROUP MEETING, MS READING, 27th APRIL 2007 www.officeusergroup.co.uk > Just a quick note that, IMHO, Excel 2007 is not ready for normal usage, > particularly on XP (where it behaves oddly, e.g., fails to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > - Mark >Do you have a multi-threaded processor? If not try turning it of under >Excel Options calculation. This may help. Actually, it exhibits less weird behavior on my Core2 Duo laptop than it does on my PIV single core desktop. Is there a known problem with Excel 2007 and multi core processors? - Mark Mark No, it's just if you don't have a multi-core or actual multi-processors, it is faster to turn the multi-threading calc engine off. I would also be interested in the actual circumstances of the slow down. Speaking with MS they have, in their eyes, little trouble with load/save slowness and advise using the xlsb file type if speed is your real goal as this one is very optimised. There is also some issues around 'trash' left from upgrade (old personal.xls, excel.xlb, book.xlt, sheet.xlt, etc) and slow add-ins. I have Excel 2007 on clean install XP and Vista (2007 clean installed too) and they both work about the same. They are a little slow, I agree, but don't find that unworkable. Also, moving to NOD32 from Norton AV made a huge difference (IMO, Symantec have lost their way with AV, seeming to just add stuff, rather than refine what they have) I am on a single core processors everywhere (all 32 bit) Have you read the thread about changing the shortcut to Excel that appears to speed some peoples loading? Lastly, there are some areas which are very slow and I believe still WIP. Charting, Shapes and that type of object SignatureHTH Nick Hodge Microsoft MVP - Excel Southampton, England nick_hodgeTAKETHISOUT@zen.co.ukANDTHIS web: www.nickhodge.co.uk blog: www.nickhodge.co.uk/blog/ FREE UK OFFICE USER GROUP MEETING, MS READING, 27th APRIL 2007 www.officeusergroup.co.uk > >Do you have a multi-threaded processor? If not try turning it of under >>Excel Options calculation. This may help. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > - Mark Nick, Good food for thought, thank you. As to specifics of the slowdown: it seems to be related to links between files which are being converted from xlsx to xls format. Here's the linkage map for the set of files where I'm seeing the problem: Sub1 ---| Sub2 ---| Sub3 ---|--- Main Sub4 ---| Sub5 ---| In other words, five subsidiary files are linked to one main file. There are links running both ways (i.e., subs draw information from main, and main draws results from subs). If I open this collection as xlsx files, and then go through and individually Save As each file as an xls file (starting with the subs and ending with main), the conversion process for main takes "forever" (i.e., I've never let it finish because it takes at least 20 minutes on a Core2Duo system). I don't recall exactly where the hang takes place, I think it's in the "formatting file" stage (there's a progress bar that shows up in the lower right corner of Excel and never progresses). If instead I open the files individually, starting with the main, and convert them, and then manually update the links between the sheets, everything proceeds normally. Hope this helps. - Mark Mark I can see no real reason why the files that are linked should take longer. Have you tried converting the sub files to xlsx or xlsb to see if that speeds it up as a test? Also, are these files on a network? This is a stab in the dark as they should be just as slow in XL2003, but I'm just not seeing significant slow-down on my three very different installations with some very deep 'mixed' format links. I only have single core machines and they all have Vista, but not sure that should make a difference. Two have NOD32 AV and one AVG. Bit lost for ideas past this. SignatureHTH Nick Hodge Microsoft MVP - Excel Southampton, England nick_hodgeTAKETHISOUT@zen.co.ukANDTHIS web: www.nickhodge.co.uk blog: www.nickhodge.co.uk/blog/ FREE UK OFFICE USER GROUP MEETING, MS READING, 27th APRIL 2007 www.officeusergroup.co.uk > Nick, > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > - Mark Hi Nick Where do you turn this off Permanently? I have tried de-selecting it, closing Excel, and re-opening and it is selected again. Is it another of those things set by the first workbook opened? If so then I guess it has to be set in my Personal.xls. Strange thing is though, that even if I have XL2003 loaded, then load XL2007, when it informs me that Personal .xls is already loaded and I choose Read only, it still occurs. Any clues? SignatureRegards Roger Govier > Mark > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >> >> - Mark Please see the thread titled "More Excel 2007 Speed Issues." I've tested files with Excel 2003 and 2007, on different machines, some single CPU, some dual-core AMD with gobs of memory. All under XP Pro. I've installed 2007, uninstalled it and put 2003 back, then back to 2007. If the problem is "housekeeping" then fix it. Right now 2007 is so slow it is unusable; not just "inconvenient" but downright unusable. And I'm not talking about multiple linked files or 10^6 records in a table or anything that isn't doable in 2003. How about a level vs. time graph with three series of 7,200 points each? > Mark > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > > > - Mark Norm Don't use much charting but Excel is working acceptably here. I use the xlsb format when I need speed, have a single core processor so have multi-threading off. By no means is it perfect but it's not *all* bad. Charting, now being owned by the Office team (It's office art) is without doubt under-cooked BTW: MS are unlikely to respond or maybe even read these groups, they are peer to peer. I would expect further performance enhancements in SP1 (Expect 8-12 months from now) SignatureHTH Nick Hodge Microsoft MVP - Excel Southampton, England nick_hodgeTAKETHISOUT@zen.co.ukANDTHIS web: www.nickhodge.co.uk blog: www.nickhodge.co.uk/blog/ FREE UK OFFICE USER GROUP MEETING, MS READING, 27th APRIL 2007 www.officeusergroup.co.uk > Please see the thread titled "More Excel 2007 Speed Issues." > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >> > >> > - Mark I've not tried XLSB, but will. For some reasoin I'm thinking this has to do with the loading of files not the stuff that goes on once loaded. Loading, now, isn't the issue. But I'll try it. I've used Excel since day one. I used it extensively when I was getting my MBA and was probably the best person in class when we were doing modeling, optimizations and linear programming (the Sover is really cool!). I use it for calculations, but I also do a LOT of graphing of data. None of this means I'm an Excel guru, just that I'm experienced with it. I'll be glad to send you a file with the sets of 7,200 points (2 hours of one-second data) and corresponding plots if you want to see what I mean. Let me know. I've tried this on a single processor machine and a dual core screamer under XP. Also a dual processor, dual core machine with 4 GB of RAM running 64-bit Vista. The 2007 version is a total dog in all instances, to the point where it is useless at times. I'm better off with 2003 on a simple laptop because it's faster. normdREMOVE@knorrREMOVEassociates.com > Norm > [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > >> > > >> > - Mark Mark I have just started a free trial of Office 2007 and I am experiencing what sounds like the same thing as you did. When I save certain Excel 2007 workbooks (compatibility format) the save function takes 20 minutes at full CPU utilization (50% on my multi-processor). When it finally completes, the exit and open functions are diabled, so I have to end the task with task manager. Did you discover any fixes to this problem? Mike > Just a quick note that, IMHO, Excel 2007 is not ready for normal usage, particularly on XP (where it behaves oddly, e.g., fails to > open up XLS files when you double-click them; it works better in Vista). [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > - Mark Mike, Sorry about the delay in replying. I don't regularly check in here. The only solution I've found is to do all my work in the new format (.xlsx) and then downrev the file(s) when I need to share with someone who doesn't have Excel 2007. Obviously, this won't work if you do much back and forth with folks using earlier versions. In my case I'm mostly "transmitting" updated versions to my clients, not trying to incorporate their work into my model(s). - Mark >Mark > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >> - Mark "Mark Olbert" <ChairmanMAO@newsgroups.nospam> wrote... ... >Obviously, this won't work if you do much back and forth with folks using >earlier versions. In my case I'm mostly "transmitting" updated versions >to my clients, not trying to incorporate their work into my model(s). ... At least now you've seen why you should let your clients upgrade before you do yourself. I have xl95, xl97sr2, xl2002, xl2003 and xl2007 depending on clients needs. SignatureDon Guillett Microsoft MVP Excel SalesAid Software dguillett1@austin.rr.com > "Mark Olbert" <ChairmanMAO@newsgroups.nospam> wrote... > ... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > At least now you've seen why you should let your clients upgrade before > you do yourself. "Don Guillett" <dguillett1@austin.rr.com> wrote... >I have xl95, xl97sr2, xl2002, xl2003 and xl2007 depending on clients needs. ... A better solution for providing clients files they can use then relying on files created using the latest version to function without problems in older versions. Brings back fond memories from 6 or 7 years ago when it came as such a rude shock to too many that macros written in Excel 2000/VBA6.x could fubar in Excel 97/VBA5.x. >"Mark Olbert" <ChairmanMAO@newsgroups.nospam> wrote... >.... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >At least now you've seen why you should let your clients upgrade before you >do yourself. .. which raises the question ... Why is it called 'upgrading' if it actually breaks things ? I would have thought that upgrading implies adding things, not taking things away. :)
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