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MS Office Forum / Outlook / New Users / March 2008

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How to Configure Outlook 2003 with a Hotmail Account as Primary

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Green - 22 Feb 2008 20:05 GMT
In KB892448 "When you use Outlook to delete Hotmail messages or MSN
messages, the deleted messages do not appear in the Trash Can of the
Hotmail account or the MSN account" it states: "In an Outlook profile
where there is no Exchange e-mail account, the Hotmail e-mail account
or the MSN e-mail account is the primary account. Therefore, all
deleted messages are sent to the Deleted Items folder of the
appropriate account. This behavior occurs regardless of whether the
account is a primary account or a secondary account."

My question is: How do I set up an Outlook profile with no Exchange e-
mail account?  I need my Hotmail (MSN Premium) account to be the
Primary account (the only account for now).  I also do not need
connectivity to MSN Explorer, and would rarely if ever access my e-
mail via the web.  I just want Outlook to be my only PIM.

Thank You,
Green
Brian Tillman - 22 Feb 2008 20:53 GMT
> My question is: How do I set up an Outlook profile with no Exchange e-
> mail account?  I need my Hotmail (MSN Premium) account to be the
> Primary account (the only account for now).  I also do not need
> connectivity to MSN Explorer, and would rarely if ever access my e-
> mail via the web.  I just want Outlook to be my only PIM.

The only way to do that, as far as I know, is to use Outlook Live and the
Outlook Connector.
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2005/Jan05/01-20OutlookLive2005PR.mspx
http://www.slipstick.com/outlook/mool.htm .  This will make Outlook behave
as though it is connected to an Exchange mailbox, right down to creating an
OST.
Signature

Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]

Green - 23 Feb 2008 15:27 GMT
> > My question is: How do I set up an Outlook profile with no Exchange e-
> > mail account?  I need my Hotmail (MSN Premium) account to be the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> --
> Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]

I'm afraid you've lost me.  I don't know what an OST is.  For that
matter, I need to get a better basic understanding of e-mail account
types, because Microsoft keeps expanding the jargon.  What is the
difference between an Exchange account and a web-based?  (I know the
basic differences between POP3 and web-based, or HTTP).

Second, your potential solutions seem slanted toward having
connectivity.  I don't need it.  I will only use Outlook.  On the
extremely rare circumstance that I need to access my mail via
Hotmail.com, I won't care much about flagging, etc. not transferring
back to Outlook.

Are you saying that Outlook 2003 wasn't built to set up one HTTP type
account, and use it as primary?  Why do they state: "In an Outlook
profile
where there is no Exchange e-mail account, the Hotmail e-mail account
or the MSN e-mail account is the primary account." ?

Thanks Again,
Green
Brian Tillman - 25 Feb 2008 13:19 GMT
> Are you saying that Outlook 2003 wasn't built to set up one HTTP type
> account, and use it as primary?  Why do they state: "In an Outlook
> profile
> where there is no Exchange e-mail account, the Hotmail e-mail account
> or the MSN e-mail account is the primary account." ?

I misinterpreted some of what you wrote.  You certainly can have only a
WIndows Live Hotmail account (HTTP) if you install the Outlook Connector.
However, the folders it creates will not be your default folders, as far as
I can tell.  If you don't want an Exchange account in your mail profile,
simply do not try to define one.  Just define the Live Hotmail account as
the only account.
Signature

Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]

Green - 27 Feb 2008 00:45 GMT
> I misinterpreted some of what you wrote.  You certainly can have only a
> WIndows Live Hotmail account (HTTP) if you install the Outlook Connector.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> --
> Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]

Would you say that if I don't even want MSN Explorer installed (I'm
thinking of a fresh OS install on a 2nd HD) that I would be better off
to:
    Create a profile where the HTTP account is the only one, and
    Create a forwarding rule to move all mail from the default Inbox
to the MSN Inbox, and
    Quit there - no need to install the Outlook Connector, or sign up
for Live Hotmail.
I'm also replying to Gordon below.

Green
Brian Tillman - 27 Feb 2008 03:29 GMT
> Would you say that if I don't even want MSN Explorer installed (I'm
> thinking of a fresh OS install on a 2nd HD)

I'm not sure why you think MSN Explorer has anything to do with this.

> that I would be better off
> to:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>      Quit there - no need to install the Outlook Connector, or sign up
> for Live Hotmail.

You WILL need Outlook Connector if you intend to access Windows Live Hotmail
from within Outlook.
Signature

Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]

Beege - 23 Feb 2008 16:39 GMT
>    In KB892448 "When you use Outlook to delete Hotmail messages or MSN
> messages, the deleted messages do not appear in the Trash Can of the
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Thank You,
> Green

Green,

I'm using Outlook 2002, and am able to setup an account with my hotmail
account. I used "HTTP" with the HTTP service provider "Hotmail", using
my email address as my user name and my password, well, as my password.
Does Outlook 2003 lose this functionality?

Beege
Beege - 23 Feb 2008 16:43 GMT
<snip>
> Green,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Beege

By the way, I'm much happier not using Outlook, but Thunderbird for my
PIM. Has good calendar and reminder plugin, and a newsreader for usenet.

beege
Gordon - 23 Feb 2008 21:31 GMT
> I'm using Outlook 2002, and am able to setup an account with my hotmail
> account. I used "HTTP" with the HTTP service provider "Hotmail", using my
> email address as my user name and my password, well, as my password. Does
> Outlook 2003 lose this functionality?

No, it's Hotmail that has lost the functionality. You are lucky in that you
(presumably) have a legacy account. Any new account will NOT work like that
unless a) it is a Hotmail Live account and b) the Outlook Connector is
installed which will only work on 2003 and 2007 AFAIK...
Green - 23 Feb 2008 23:35 GMT
> > I'm using Outlook 2002, and am able to setup an account with my hotmail
> > account. I used "HTTP" with the HTTP service provider "Hotmail", using my
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> unless a) it is a Hotmail Live account and b) the Outlook Connector is
> installed which will only work on 2003 and 2007 AFAIK...

The functionality I'm after is to create an Outlook Profile where the
MSN (or Hotmail) account is the Primary account.  I have a profile
where I've added the MSN (HTTP) account, but Outlook 2003 forces it to
secondary account status - even when the so called primary account is
blank! In other words, if I create abrand new profile, and the ONLY
account I set up is HTTP, Outlook creates two Inboxes: the default
(empty) Inbox, and a secondary MSN/Hotmail/HTTP Inbox.  This causes a
problem with my PDA software, which will only connect to the Primary
Inbox (primary account).

Beege, with your setup, do you have only one Inbox?
Gordon - 24 Feb 2008 10:39 GMT
The functionality I'm after is to create an Outlook Profile where the
MSN (or Hotmail) account is the Primary account.  I have a profile
where I've added the MSN (HTTP) account, but Outlook 2003 forces it to
secondary account status - even when the so called primary account is
blank! In other words, if I create abrand new profile, and the ONLY
account I set up is HTTP, Outlook creates two Inboxes: the default
(empty) Inbox, and a secondary MSN/Hotmail/HTTP Inbox.

That's the way it works. Period. You CAN set up a rule to move emails
received in the MSN mailbox to the Local Folders Inbox AFAIK....
Brian Tillman - 25 Feb 2008 13:21 GMT
> The functionality I'm after is to create an Outlook Profile where the
> MSN (or Hotmail) account is the Primary account.  I have a profile
> where I've added the MSN (HTTP) account, but Outlook 2003 forces it to
> secondary account status - even when the so called primary account is
> blank!

Correct, and that's what I'm trying to say.  It will be your primary
_account_ (since it's the only account), but without Outlook Live, the
folders will not be your delivery location (i.e., default) folders.
Signature

Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]

Green - 24 Feb 2008 00:16 GMT
> > I'm using Outlook 2002, and am able to setup an account with my hotmail
> > account. I used "HTTP" with the HTTP service provider "Hotmail", using my
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> unless a) it is a Hotmail Live account and b) the Outlook Connector is
> installed which will only work on 2003 and 2007 AFAIK...

The functionality I'm after is to create an Outlook Profile where the
MSN (or Hotmail) account is the Primary account.  I have a profile
where I've added the MSN (HTTP) account, but Outlook 2003 forces it
to
secondary account status - even when the so called primary account is
blank! In other words, if I create abrand new profile, and the ONLY
account I set up is HTTP, Outlook creates two Inboxes: the default
(empty) Inbox, and a secondary MSN/Hotmail/HTTP Inbox.  This causes a
problem with my PDA software, which will only connect to the Primary
Inbox (primary account).

Beege, with your setup, do you have only one Inbox?

Gordon, my account is MSN Premium, comes with my Qwest High Speed
Internet (DSL).
Green - 24 Feb 2008 17:28 GMT
Gordon in 7 wrote:
>That's the way it works. Period. You CAN set up a rule to move emails
>received in the MSN mailbox to the Local Folders Inbox AFAIK....

I've heard about setting up a rule, but let me restate from my initial
post:

>In KB892448...it states: "In an Outlook profile
>where there is no Exchange e-mail account, the Hotmail e-mail account
>or the MSN e-mail account is the primary account. ...This behavior occurs regardless of whether >the account is a primary account or a secondary account."

Why would Microsoft make that statement?
Gordon - 25 Feb 2008 07:57 GMT
> Gordon in 7 wrote:
>>That's the way it works. Period. You CAN set up a rule to move emails
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Why would Microsoft make that statement?

That is a perfectly true statement. You are missing the point entirely.
Hotmail and MSN mail are NOT POP mail services, they are HTTP. They do NOT,
and cannot be made to, use the Personal Folders file as the default delivery
location. this has always been the case. This happens with IMAP mail as
well. What set of folders a particular email account uses has NOTHING to do
with whether that account is the default account or not....
Green - 27 Feb 2008 01:04 GMT
> That is a perfectly true statement. You are missing the point entirely.
> Hotmail and MSN mail are NOT POP mail services, they are HTTP. They do NOT,
> and cannot be made to, use the Personal Folders file as the default delivery
> location. this has always been the case. This happens with IMAP mail as
> well. What set of folders a particular email account uses has NOTHING to do
> with whether that account is the default account or not....

It's starting to sink in.  Forgive me for making the semantical
mistake of confusing "primary" with "default".  I would have thought
Microsoft meant the same thing with both.  Should have known better!
After all, they've created more names for the same thing than anyone
in the history of dictionaries.

So I think I get this much (PLEASE DO correct me where I'm wrong):

1) The Personal Folders Inbox is the default delivery location,
period.  Type of account has nothing to do with this.
2) Any e-mail account other than an MS Exchange Server or POP3 type
will automatically be given second-class status, and a second Inbox
will be created for that account, even if there is no other e-mail
account in that Profile.
3) Since my PDA will sync only with the default Inbox, the ONLY way to
accomplish that is to create a rule which forwards my HTTP mail to the
default Personal Folders Inbox.

If I'm correct above, please guide me on the creation of that rule.
Even though I've used Outlook for years, I've never played with rules.

Green
Brian Tillman - 27 Feb 2008 03:32 GMT
> It's starting to sink in.  Forgive me for making the semantical
> mistake of confusing "primary" with "default".  I would have thought
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> 1) The Personal Folders Inbox is the default delivery location,
> period.  Type of account has nothing to do with this.

Not exactly.  WIth an Excahnge account, the usual delivery location is the
Exchange mailbox and one doesn't need any PST in that case.

> 2) Any e-mail account other than an MS Exchange Server or POP3 type
> will automatically be given second-class status, and a second Inbox
> will be created for that account, even if there is no other e-mail
> account in that Profile.

I'd disagree with "second-class".

> 3) Since my PDA will sync only with the default Inbox, the ONLY way to
> accomplish that is to create a rule which forwards my HTTP mail to the
> default Personal Folders Inbox.
>
> If I'm correct above, please guide me on the creation of that rule.
> Even though I've used Outlook for years, I've never played with rules.

You cannot run rules on HTTP accounts, as far as I can tell.
Signature

Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]

Green - 28 Feb 2008 03:44 GMT
> Not exactly.  WIth an Excahnge account, the usual delivery location is the
> Exchange mailbox and one doesn't need any PST in that case.

As I understand it, an Exchange account is strictly used in a
corporate setting, where the IT dept. sets it up on their own server.
If so, this will never apply to me.

> You cannot run rules on HTTP accounts, as far as I can tell.

I'm starting to think my best option is to try to go back to a POP3
account.  I'm ready to drop Microsoft (and Qwest too, if they won't
sell me DSL without MSN).  Why has Microsoft created more flavors of e-
mail than Baskin-Robbins has ice cream?!  I don't want a Live Hotmail
account, and at this point I'm not sure I care to know what it is, or
if it's different than what I have now, which is (I'm told) an MSN
Premium account.

I can't see value in installing yet more Microsoft software like
Outlook Connector, when I don't need any connectivity.  I used to have
POP3 e-mail.  When I upgraded to DSL, it came with MSN Explorer, which
I made the HUGE MISTAKE of innocently installing on my computer.  That
simple act forced my e-mail to convert to HTTP, and couldn't be undone
(read KB268732).  That in turn broke my use of Outlook, which was set
up to access a POP3 smtp server.  Calls to Microsoft resulted in an
unresolved case number, which I never got solved, due to bad tech
support, and because this isn't my LIVELIHOOD, it's my time-sucking
black hole.  Years later, when my discomfort with the P.O.S. MSN
Explorer reached a climax, I took the project up again, and figured
out by myself how to make Outlook work with HTTP mail.

All I want is to have my mail show up in a folder which my Palm PDA
software will link to, without having to move everything by hand.
What do you suggest?

Please excuse my anger.  This has been years in the making.  A simple
thing shouldn't be this complicated.  I do appreciate your attempts to
help.

Green
Brian Tillman - 28 Feb 2008 12:38 GMT
> All I want is to have my mail show up in a folder which my Palm PDA
> software will link to, without having to move everything by hand.
> What do you suggest?

With the Outlook Connector and an MSN Premium account (and possibly Outlook
Live, which is included with MSN Premium accounts, I believe), you should be
able to make your Hotmail folders the delivery location.  That would allow
your Palm device to sync with those folders.  There are some drawbacks,
however, in that Hotmail's limitations are extended to Outlook in that case,
like the 1,000 contact limit.  See http://www.slipstick.com/outlook/mool.htm
Signature

Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]

Green - 25 Mar 2008 03:20 GMT
> > All I want is to have my mail show up in a folder which my Palm PDA
> > software will link to, without having to move everything by hand.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> --
> Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]

I'm not happy that I had to, but I've solved my own problem.  The
problem was: how to make an HTTP type e-mail account behave in Outlook
as though it was a POP3 type, because Outlook treats HTTP type
accounts as second-class citizens (and Brian, you're wrong to
disagree).  As late as Outlook 2007, the program will NOT allow an
account set up as HTTP (web-based e-mail) to be the primary mailbox,
even if there is NO other account set up.  It will force the creation
of a SECOND Inbox for the HTTP account, leaving the "primary" mailbox
empty.  SECOND CLASS treatment.
Any PDA's out there have a hard (impossible, to my knowledge) time
synchronizing to anything other than the primary mailbox.

But there IS a fix!

This inexplicably difficult behavior was first caused for me by my
making the mistake of installing MSN Explorer on my computer when I
upgraded to DSL years ago.  In  the fine print (I'm told) was a notice
that by doing so, my perfectly functional POP3 e-mail accounts would
be IRREVOCABLY converted to HTTP.  Not in the fine print was the fact
that Outlook doesn't like HTTP and my use of Outlook would be broken -
period.  All because I installed MSN Explorer (the butterfly).
Afterwards, when Outlook stopped downloading mail, I suffered though a
number of hopelessly undertrained "tech support" personnel, to no
avail.  I gave up and used MSN for years, which was Microsoft's
attempt to compete with AOL, and has the same childish interface.  The
teenage girls are thrilled.  But I suffered with a huge loss of
functionality, and an intrusive program that never stopped trying to
SELL me something, and added more Microsoft based glitches to my
computer, like the mysterious Connection Center, which has somehow
installed itself twice over the years, and then pops up incessantly,
trying to connect via dialup!  Not to mention the glitches caused by
MSN Messenger, also directly related to MSN Explorer.

Brian suggested "solving" the problem by installing yet more related
software, the Outlook Connector, and possibly having to sign up for
Microsoft Outlook Live.  With that as the only "solution", I was
shopping for a new e-mail service provider when I stumbled onto the
solution, which, almost ironically, Microsoft has provided.  But why
didn't you mention it, Brian?  Is it a well kept secret?

Microsoft has a (new?) server to allow HTTP e-mail accounts to be
treated like POP3.  It's called pop3.live.com.  Here's how to fix the
problem:

Go to Microsoft Support, look up Knowledge Base article KB930008,
follow the instructions in Method 2 EXACTLY (use the same settings for
either Outlook 2003 or 2007).  I've provided a link here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/930008

Here are a few details you want to be sure not to miss:
On the initial email creation screen, be sure to use your ENTIRE e-
mail address as your User Name under Logon Information (it auto-
populates with just part of your address).  Do NOT check to use SPA.
In 'More Settings' on the Outgoing Server tab, check the "My outgoing
server requires authentication" box, and "Use same settings as my
incoming mail server" (important or you can't send mail!).
On the Advanced tab, check both SSL boxes and set incoming to 995,
outgoing to 25.

If you plan to ever access your e-mail from more than one machine or
program, you need to know this:
A fundamental difference between POP3 and HTTP is that POP3 normally
downloads ALL messages to the local computer, leaving nothing on the
server, so if you later try to look at your (undeleted) e-mail from
any other machine (or program), those messages are gone - they're on
the machine you downloaded them to earlier.  HTTP was created to allow
multiple access points (web-based), so all e-mails are stored on the
SERVER until deleted.
But by using the following instructions  (which aren't in the KB
article), you can make Outlook play well with HTTP based access: you
can still access the account from the web (like Hotmail.com).

On the Advanced tab, check "Leave a copy of messages on the server"
and "Remove from server when deleted from 'Deleted Items'".  These two
options will make it work like HTTP.

I have Windows XP SP1, and Outlook 2003.  I'm confident this method
will be virtually the same for XP SP2, and Outlook 2007 or any
arrangement of those.
Diane Poremsky {MVP} - 25 Mar 2008 04:22 GMT
Its been an option on live acct for some time-but only does the inbox, not
other folders or the calendar and contacts, as the connector does. (Http
will do all mail folders}

FWIW the connector mail box can be set as default message store.

Signature

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>> > All I want is to have my mail show up in a folder which my Palm PDA
>> > software will link to, without having to move everything by hand.
[quoted text clipped - 93 lines]
> will be virtually the same for XP SP2, and Outlook 2007 or any
> arrangement of those.
Brian Tillman - 25 Mar 2008 14:11 GMT
> I'm not happy that I had to, but I've solved my own problem.  The
> problem was: how to make an HTTP type e-mail account behave in Outlook
> as though it was a POP3 type, because Outlook treats HTTP type
> accounts as second-class citizens (and Brian, you're wrong to
> disagree).

Hardly.  I'm always entitled to my opinion (and you to yours), but you
holding the _opinion_ that HTTP mail is "second-class" doesn't negate my
opinion that it's not the case.

> Brian suggested "solving" the problem by installing yet more related
> software, the Outlook Connector, and possibly having to sign up for
> Microsoft Outlook Live.  With that as the only "solution", I was
> shopping for a new e-mail service provider when I stumbled onto the
> solution, which, almost ironically, Microsoft has provided.  But why
> didn't you mention it, Brian?  Is it a well kept secret?

Clearly because I didn't know about it.  Why would think any differently?

> Microsoft has a (new?) server to allow HTTP e-mail accounts to be
> treated like POP3.  It's called pop3.live.com.  Here's how to fix the
> problem:

Never heard about it.  Interesting.

> Go to Microsoft Support, look up Knowledge Base article KB930008,
> follow the instructions in Method 2 EXACTLY (use the same settings for
> either Outlook 2003 or 2007).  I've provided a link here:
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/930008

Notice that the very FIRST suggestion in that article is to use the Outlook
Connector.  Apparently Microsoft agrees with me.

> A fundamental difference between POP3 and HTTP is that POP3 normally
> downloads ALL messages to the local computer, leaving nothing on the
> server, so if you later try to look at your (undeleted) e-mail from
> any other machine (or program), those messages are gone - they're on
> the machine you downloaded them to earlier.

Naturally, this can be adjusted so that messages remain on the server until
deleted, as you point out.

There's another fundamental difference between POP and HTTP accounts.  POP
has no concept of "folders".  The only server data available to the POP
client is what's in the Inbox.  With HTTP, all mail folders are available.
With a paid account, the server contacts data are available as well.
Signature

Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]

Beege - 25 Feb 2008 13:37 GMT
> Beege, with your setup, do you have only one Inbox?

No, there is a "Personal Folders" inbox and a Hotmail inbox. There are
also other folders in my Hotmail account that I created through the
browser interface that sync with the Hotmail/Outlook folder. Doens't
seem like that's what you're looking for. I'd go with the rules idea
that sends anything sent to the hotmail account to you personal inbox,
but that's just me.
 
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