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MS Office Forum / Publisher / Commercial Printing / April 2007

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Re: Can I get "Step by step" on color separating for commercial pr

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Mac Townsend - 11 Apr 2007 05:00 GMT
<rant>Most Acrobat plugins are one-trick ponies and they are all priced as though they were THE essential tool. How many jobs does it take to justify a $300 one-trick pony? Too darn many. More than I'll ever see in the rest of my life, that's for sure.

Pitstop is one of the few multi-trick ponies, and because of that it is an important addition but still it costs more than Publisher and Acrobat pro combined f'crissake!

Maybe a decade-and-a-half ago (maybe a little less) Adobe and Agfa did a PDF tout promising that PDF was the coming Golden Age. The question I asked then, at the San Francisco "circus," was "if customers can;t produce a PostScript file which is simply printing for gosh sakes, how can we expect them to make a usable PDF where the options are many." I got no answer. Despite the question being rephrased by others in the audience of preprepss people, all we got was double speak.

Then the media took over. PDF is the Second Coming, we should all bow down. and genuflect towards San Jose. And it has continued. And it is still bovine droppings.

If there are 10 was to make a PDF, 9 will be screwed up. And Adobe bears a large part of the blame. Who was it had the bright frigin' idea to turn off font embedding as default behavior in "create a PDF"? Well, I sentence them to 10 years of trung to explain to people who barely know ow to turn their computrer on how to edit printer properties and turn something off ("Off? I can't do that...I'd get in trouble...." was one response."

The problems with most desktop publishing files, whether from MS Publisher or InDesign, is not the software is it people who don't know what the heck they are really trying to do. And most are (a) not interested in learning or (b) so far back odf the curve that you have to explain how 1+1=2 before you can get much further. We just don;t have the time to do this.

And it is the fault of Microsoft and Adobe and others who have foist this fraud on the gneeral public.</rant?

SNAP...Owww, damn! (soapbx boards broke. gotta go clean up my ankle. Man, it stings.

I've had Trapwise handle color remapping (without trapping) quite well. (one hellovan expensive thing, that has earned me maybe 5% on its purchase and upgrade price over the years.)

> While it is true that Acrobat can accommodate many of the prepress functions
> necessary to deal with Publisher it is still lacking in several areas when
> compared to Enfocus PitStop or Callas pdfColorConvert.
>
> PitStop is that all inclusive preflighting and editing tool. While
> pdfColorConvert is particularly tailored to deal with color space
> conversions. It is particularly well suited for converting Office PDF's to
> CMYK because Callas has specifically engineered pdfColorConvert to deal with
> Office RGB in a better way. None of the other color conversion tools do it
> nearly as well. Even the RGB to CMYK color conversion that Adobe does from
> within Acrobat Pro.
>
> One of the downsides to using Acrobat for all the functions is that
> everything  you need is kind of scattered all about. There isn't one
> intuitive dialog box that contains the prepress functions. That is until
> Acrobat 8 came along when Adobe introduced "fixups" as part of preflighting.
> Callas makes the preflighting engine and automates the "fixups" that are
> performed by Adobe. So now it is significantly easier. But you still have
> the problem of inferior color separations coming from Adobe when compared to
> Callas.
>
> On the other hand with Callas and Adobe doing the color space
> transformations you do *not* have the ability to take an RGB document and
> make it spot color. With PitStop you can do this.
>
> On the other hand (now isn't that redundant?) with PitStop and Acrobat 8 you
> cannot detect and fix RGB gray images like you can with pdfColorConvert.
> That is usually reserved for $10,000 or more color servers.
>
> No one thing does it all best. It really is a little of everything to deal
> with PDF's best.
>
> Matt Beals
> Consultant
> Enfocus Certified Trainer
> Markzware Recognized Trainer
> (206) 201-2320 - Main
> (720) 367-3869 - eFax
> mailto:matt@mattbeals.com [mailto:matt@mattbeals.com]
>
> Come visit me at:
>
> http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
> http://www.mattbeals.com
> http://blog.mattbeals.com
>
> Friends don't let friends write HTML email
>
> On 4/10/07 3:05 PM, in article
> 88udnXMAOqp8lIHbnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com, "anyone" <anyone@nowhere.net>
> wrote:
>
> > I spent some time with Adobe Tech support on this one (as well as in this
> > group). Acrobat can make the conversion, although it is not quite
> > documented.
> > In that you have ID, do you have Acrobat, Full? Pro? version 6, 7 or 8?
> > I have a batch process set up with Acrobat 8, can check if it is built into
> > 6 or 7.
> > BTW, we've been able to cram everything to 100%K except anything converted
> > to WordArt out of Publisher 2003; just rec'd 2007 this a.m.
> >
> > "Greg" <Greg@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:00DBEB5E-AAD6-41BC-9ECB-FE55C4F3791E@microsoft.com...
> >> Im not suprised by that answer, im using 2003 btw.  InDesign is my
> >> preferred
> >> tool but in my job, im dealing files sent in by people that use whatever
> >> they
> >> have and unfortunatly publisher is what people have most...painful!
> >>
> >> I thought I heard that Microsoft had a program coming out soon that would
> >> focus more on commercial use and compete with programs like InDesign and
> >> Quark and such, anyone heard anything about that?
> >>
> >> "Matt Beals" wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 4/10/07 7:08 AM, in article
> >>> EC4160BB-18D3-4274-B7D2-8BDB40A1A0DD@microsoft.com, "Greg"
> >>> <Greg@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> This is kind of an extension on my previous message but I feel it would
> >>>> help
> >>>> a lot more.  Can someone give me a quick step by step on making a
> >>>> document
> >>>> with text and photo into a press quality color seperated piece using
> >>>> PMS
> >>>> colors and process black?  Or maybe point me to a site that can give
> >>>> step by
> >>>> step on that stuff?
> >>>
> >>> The only way to do it is to print as separations. Printing composite
> >>> everything goes RGB. It should be better with Publisher 2003 and 2007
> >>> using
> >>> the commercial printing tools, but alas it is not. I think it was in
> >>> Publisher 2003 that they got away from the separations themselves from
> >>> being
> >>> send as RGB gray which cause a ton of problems.
> >>>
> >>> Short answer, there is no "easy" way of getting composite PDF's to come
> >>> with
> >>> spot colors. Enfocus PitStop can go a long ways to making it easier, but
> >>> that doesn't mean it is "easy" even then.
> >>>
> >>> Matt Beals
> >>> Consultant
> >>> Enfocus Certified Trainer
> >>> Markzware Recognized Trainer
> >>> (206) 201-2320 - Main
> >>> (720) 367-3869 - eFax
> >>> mailto:matt@mattbeals.com [mailto:matt@mattbeals.com]
> >>>
> >>> Come visit me at:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
> >>> http://www.mattbeals.com
> >>> http://blog.mattbeals.com
> >>>
> >>> Friends don't let friends write HTML email

Mac Townsend
Adcom Graphics, Fairfield, C A
www.adcomgraphics.com

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Matt Beals - 11 Apr 2007 15:33 GMT
Well then, how do you propose to handle Publisher files for commercial
offset? Just make everything CMYK and damn the torpedoes? I wish that would
work all the time. Unfortunately it doesn't because CMYK is not how
everything gets printed. You know that...

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:matt@mattbeals.com

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://blog.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

On 4/10/07 9:00 PM, in article ewVsm3#eHHA.3956@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl, "Mac
Townsend" <mactake@thisoutadcomgraphics.com> wrote:

> <rant>Most Acrobat plugins are one-trick ponies and they are all priced as
> though they were THE essential tool. How many jobs does it take to justify a
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> hellovan expensive thing, that has earned me maybe 5% on its purchase and
> upgrade price over the years.)
 
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