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MS Office Forum / Publisher / Web Design / November 2005

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Publisher 2003 saves my wepage as a filtered webpage, I don't like

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Mertens - 20 Jun 2004 22:28 GMT
Is there any way I can save my webpage in another format than filtered in 2003?  My website in 2002 was much more user friendly.  It bothers me now that the images on my website take so much longer to load than they did in publisher 2002.

Thanks,
analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 01:14 GMT
David will explain some tricks you can use when he responds to your post.  But
be advised that Publisher 2003 is a disaster at the moment for websites, as was
Publisher 2002 prior to a bloated coding patch.  Perhaps there will be a patch
for 2003, but Publisher 2000 is actually the best of the bunch for websites if
the site is more than a very few pages long.

In my humble opinion, M$ has screwed up badly with respect to Publisher and
websites.  It need not have been so if they had listened to the many complaints
from users maintaining relatively large websites with Publisher.

Also be advised that complaining in here about these problems will get you
labeled as a whiner, a fool, or worse.

>Is there any way I can save my webpage in another format than filtered in 2003?  My website in 2002 was much more user friendly.  It bothers me now that the images on my website take so much longer to load than they did in publisher 2002.
>
>Thanks,
David Bartosik - MS MVP - 21 Jun 2004 01:50 GMT
I have never called you a whiner or a fool. You and I don't seem to agree on
anything though so we'll have to agree on that point at least.

Signature

David Bartosik - MS MVP
for Publisher help:
www.davidbartosik.com
enter to win Pub 2003:
www.davidbartosik.com/giveaway.aspx

> David will explain some tricks you can use when he responds to your post.  But
> be advised that Publisher 2003 is a disaster at the moment for websites, as was
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> >Is there any way I can save my webpage in another format than filtered in 2003?  My website in 2002 was much more user friendly.  It bothers me now
that the images on my website take so much longer to load than they did in
publisher 2002.

> >Thanks,
analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 01:24 GMT
And, btw, it is not that it is "filtered", it is that M$ has implemented new
technology.  All versions of Publisher generate peculiar html coding; even the
best of the bunch (2000) generates fairly bulky nested table code.  2002
initially generated very bloated code, but that was later patched.  2003
generates bloated code for a different reason, but one would have thought M$
could have foreseen the outcome.  Perhaps a choice of the coding engine would be
desirable, but I am just thinking out loud about something that is way over my
head.  The bottom line is that 2003 was released (just like 2002 was) "not ready
for prime time" with respect to web work.

>Is there any way I can save my webpage in another format than filtered in 2003?  My website in 2002 was much more user friendly.  It bothers me now that the images on my website take so much longer to load than they did in publisher 2002.
>
>Thanks,
David Bartosik - MS MVP - 21 Jun 2004 02:25 GMT
It is filtered in MS speak. It's a long story.

What mr analog doesn't know and may not appreciate, is that I have been
(since 2002 ever released) and continue to be the biggest and loudest
advocate for cleaner html coding in Publisher. I can't talk about it because
of NDA's but I can tell you have met with the Publisher product group in
Redmond a few times and I push the issue all the time.

With the next release of Publisher conservatively a couple of years out you
have 3 options if you decide to use Publisher, Version 2000, or 2002, or
2003. You have to weigh the pros and cons of each one against what you
require and go from there.

One thing that is invisible to the customers is that MVP's are on the front
lines. We are the link between MS product groups and the customers. When a
customer rants and raves up one thread and down the other I'd hope they can
step back and understand that we know the pain points and we are already on
it.

Recently it was announced how you can use default settings in 2002/2003.
That was the direct result of MVP involvement. Another example would be web
page file naming in 2003. Recently MS has had the MVP's author articles for
the Office website to better get information to the customers.

Guess I'm looking for less negative attacks in this forum and more
appreciation of the MVP's.

ok I'm off my soap box now.

Signature

David Bartosik - MS MVP
for Publisher help:
www.davidbartosik.com
enter to win Pub 2003:
www.davidbartosik.com/giveaway.aspx

> And, btw, it is not that it is "filtered", it is that M$ has implemented new
> technology.  All versions of Publisher generate peculiar html coding; even the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> >Is there any way I can save my webpage in another format than filtered in 2003?  My website in 2002 was much more user friendly.  It bothers me now
that the images on my website take so much longer to load than they did in
publisher 2002.

> >Thanks,
analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 17:07 GMT
David, you are a great guy, but M$ is full of crap.  I very much appreciate your
efforts, but remain a bit perplexed by your loyalty to M$.  You have to
understand that some of us users are extremely frustrated, and more than a
little upset.  It is human nature that you will be the brunt of some of that
frustration.  It is like a prison guard with the best of intentions being
baffled that the prisoners blame him for the warden's policies.  (For the
benefit of the nit pickers, that is simile, and not metaphor).

Are you saying that the next release might be better?  Can you ask them to be
sure it can take 2000 created files and deal with them without major hassle?

>It is filtered in MS speak. It's a long story.
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
>ok I'm off my soap box now.
Napoleon - 07 Nov 2005 17:26 GMT
I believe the "Filtered HTML" format is my issue also:  
I am attempting to publish one time from MS Publisher 2003 (utilizing nice
templates) and then converting to solely using Frontpage 2003 with its added
functionality.
In effect, I want to configure Publisher so as to publish HTML code as
though it was originally built in Frontpage w/o table encapsultated data,
etc.  
Any suggestions on how to do this or how to get as close to this as
possible.  Using hosted site with FP extensions.
Signature

Thanks much,

NAP

> It is filtered in MS speak. It's a long story.
>
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> > >
> > >Thanks,
Rob Giordano (Crash) - 08 Nov 2005 16:27 GMT
Don't waste your time trying to convert a Pub created web to a FP created
one...by the time you clean it up in FP you could have redone the web in FP
three times over. Just redo the web in FP.

|I believe the "Filtered HTML" format is my issue also:
| I am attempting to publish one time from MS Publisher 2003 (utilizing nice
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
| > > >
| > > >Thanks,
Napoleon - 10 Nov 2005 20:11 GMT
Thanks much crash - I was starting to get that feeling!
Signature

Thanks much,

NAP

> Don't waste your time trying to convert a Pub created web to a FP created
> one...by the time you clean it up in FP you could have redone the web in FP
[quoted text clipped - 80 lines]
> | > > >
> | > > >Thanks,
Rob Giordano (Crash) - 11 Nov 2005 14:47 GMT
You can still pull some stuff over from Pub, images etc....if you're
familiar with FP it shouldnt take too long.

| Thanks much crash - I was starting to get that feeling!
|
[quoted text clipped - 82 lines]
| > | > > >
| > | > > >Thanks,
David Bartosik - MS MVP - 21 Jun 2004 02:27 GMT
In your 2002 did you load service pack 1?
If so then your pages where "filtered" and are slightly similar to 2003.
See my comparison at www.davidbartosik.com/pub11.htm
If you did not have SP 1 then your 2002 pages would be much much much much
more bloated then 2003.

Signature

David Bartosik - MS MVP
for Publisher help:
www.davidbartosik.com
enter to win Pub 2003:
www.davidbartosik.com/giveaway.aspx

> Is there any way I can save my webpage in another format than filtered in 2003?  My website in 2002 was much more user friendly.  It bothers me now
that the images on my website take so much longer to load than they did in
publisher 2002.

> Thanks,
Mertens - 21 Jun 2004 16:38 GMT
I am not quite sure if I loaded the service pack or not.  I think I was using 2000.   I might save all of my pages in the 2000 version on disk, wipe out 2003 and reload 2000.  I am getting a lot of complaints from consumers that the website is not as functional as it was.

Here is a sample of my website if you would like to take a look:

http://animalshare.wantapet.com/animalplastics/index.html

Thanks to both of you for your responses, this is the first time I have posted questions.  I have used this forum and your FAQ webpage to answer all of my other questions.

Mark Mertens

> In your 2002 did you load service pack 1?
> If so then your pages where "filtered" and are slightly similar to 2003.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> >
> > Thanks,
David Bartosik - MS MVP - 21 Jun 2004 17:08 GMT
The functionality complaints might be from non IE users. 2000 set to the 3.0
target setting will give you pretty good cross browser support whereas 2003
is designed for IE 5+ only.

Due to the way 2003 handles graphics I can't recommend it for a site that is
graphic intensive like yours. The simplicity in 2000 would be a better fit
in that respect.

Just look at the pros and cons of each one. good luck.

--
David Bartosik - MS MVP
for Publisher help:
www.davidbartosik.com
enter to win Pub 2003:
www.davidbartosik.com/giveaway.aspx

> I am not quite sure if I loaded the service pack or not.  I think I was using 2000.   I might save all of my pages in the 2000 version on disk, wipe
out 2003 and reload 2000.  I am getting a lot of complaints from consumers
that the website is not as functional as it was.

> Here is a sample of my website if you would like to take a look:
>
> http://animalshare.wantapet.com/animalplastics/index.html
>
> Thanks to both of you for your responses, this is the first time I have posted questions.  I have used this forum and your FAQ webpage to answer all
of my other questions.

> Mark Mertens
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> > >
> > > Thanks,
analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 17:21 GMT
Can you promise M$ will not orphan Publisher 2000?  Will it work in the next
version of Winbloz?  Based on past experience with older software, it scares me
to me stranded in Publisher 2000.  I suspect you MVPs are mostly a young bunch
with limited long term perspective; I could be wrong, of course.

>The functionality complaints might be from non IE users. 2000 set to the 3.0
>target setting will give you pretty good cross browser support whereas 2003
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Just look at the pros and cons of each one. good luck.
Brian Kvalheim - [MSFT MVP] - 21 Jun 2004 18:42 GMT
Hi analog@logwell.com (analog@logwell.com),
in the newsgroups
you posted:

|| I suspect
|| you MVPs are mostly a young bunch with limited long term
|| perspective; I could be wrong, of course.

Not young here! I will be 32 in September.
Signature

Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.publishermvps.com
~pay it forward~

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers no rights.

JoAnn Paules - 21 Jun 2004 19:58 GMT
Tee hee! I've got socks older than you!

Signature

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

> Hi analog@logwell.com (analog@logwell.com),
> in the newsgroups
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Not young here! I will be 32 in September.
Brian Kvalheim - [MSFT MVP] - 21 Jun 2004 20:10 GMT
Hi JoAnn Paules (jpaules@publishermvps.com),
in the newsgroups
you posted:

|| Tee hee! I've got socks older than you!

Has it been 30+ years since you washed them too? :-)
Signature

Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.publishermvps.com
~pay it forward~

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers no rights.

JoAnn Paules - 21 Jun 2004 20:17 GMT
Yep - and they still smell better than you!  :-P

Signature

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

> Hi JoAnn Paules (jpaules@publishermvps.com),
> in the newsgroups
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Has it been 30+ years since you washed them too? :-)
analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 22:41 GMT
Honest truth is that I have shoes older than him.

>Tee hee! I've got socks older than you!
analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 22:40 GMT
That is pretty young my friend.

>Hi analog@logwell.com (analog@logwell.com),
>in the newsgroups
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Not young here! I will be 32 in September.
JoAnn Paules - 21 Jun 2004 22:43 GMT
It is - I'm technically old enough to be his mom. But if I had done what it
would have taken to concieve him - my mom would have killed me!

Signature

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

> That is pretty young my friend.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>
>>Not young here! I will be 32 in September.
Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP] - 21 Jun 2004 23:12 GMT
> That is pretty young my friend.

Well, either way...young or not, I am pretty confident in my experience and
knowledge in Publisher. But I am impressed that you called me your friend
instead of a fool. I would much rather be a friend.
Signature

Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.publishermvps.com

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers no rights.

analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 23:40 GMT
I am a nice guy; actually an old pacifist.  I have only been ragging you because
you started this with some nasty comments about me a couple of weeks back when I
first came in this group to see if Publisher 2003 would solve my problems.  I am
not just technically old enough to be your parent, I actually have a daughter a
little older than you.

I use Publisher 2000 to build and maintain a 300 page commercial website that
receives several thousand hits each day (and that is a bunch for an arcane
technical site).  I am also confident in my skills with Publisher, at least with
respect to beating it into submission for web site work.  I was using David's
multiple file trick back in Publisher 98, and an escalation guy at M$ could not
believe anybody would go to those lengths.  

However, I am very upset that I have not been able to practically move into
Publisher 2002, and now Publisher 2003.  When I decided to bail out and go to
Front Page is when I realized I was truly in deep dodo.  It would take countless
hours to do so at this late date.  I now hope against hope that M$ will do the
right thing and produce a future release of Publisher that does the job.  If I
have unrealistic expectations, I am sorry.

A page you may get a kick out of:
http://www.logwell.com/WRFN/index.html

>> That is pretty young my friend.
>
>Well, either way...young or not, I am pretty confident in my experience and
>knowledge in Publisher. But I am impressed that you called me your friend
>instead of a fool. I would much rather be a friend.
Brian Kvalheim - [MSFT MVP] - 22 Jun 2004 15:37 GMT
Hi analog@logwell.com (analog@logwell.com),
in the newsgroups
you posted:

|| I am a nice guy; actually an old pacifist.  I have only been ragging
|| you because you started this with some nasty comments about me a
|| couple of weeks back when I first came in this group to see if
|| Publisher 2003 would solve my problems.  I am not just technically
|| old enough to be your parent, I actually have a daughter a little
|| older than you.

Hopefully we get some nice improvements with the Publisher 2003 Service
pack. We will be sure to inform YOU if they improved anything.

|| I use Publisher 2000 to build and maintain a 300 page commercial
|| website that receives several thousand hits each day (and that is a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
|| trick back in Publisher 98, and an escalation guy at M$ could not
|| believe anybody would go to those lengths.

That is a VERY large website for Publisher. Holy cow. Largest one I
personally have ever heard of.

|| However, I am very upset that I have not been able to practically
|| move into Publisher 2002, and now Publisher 2003.  When I decided to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
|| future release of Publisher that does the job.  If I have
|| unrealistic expectations, I am sorry.

I can't imagine the work that is involved. I know that I have alot of work
ahead of me converting my FrontPage 2003 created pages to a text format with
html coding that will be used on our ASP.net site. But I will start plugging
away :-(

|| A page you may get a kick out of:
|| http://www.logwell.com/WRFN/index.html

That is a whole lot of reading on that page....whew! Before I was born!

Signature

Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.publishermvps.com
~pay it forward~

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers no rights.

analog@logwell.com - 22 Jun 2004 19:40 GMT
>|| I use Publisher 2000 to build and maintain a 300 page commercial
>|| website that receives several thousand hits each day (and that is a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>That is a VERY large website for Publisher. Holy cow. Largest one I
>personally have ever heard of.

*  I built it in Publisher because I was enticed by the idea I could use the
same material for printed pages.  M$ never said don't do that if you expect your
website to grow to 300 pages.  Nevertheless, I like using Publisher 2000, and in
general am pleased with the job it does.  There is a kind of elegance to David's
multiple file trick, though it gets a bit complicated and certainly is not for
everybody.  Notwithstanding Bill's frequent comments about the utility of older
versions of M$ software, anyone who has been using PCs for twenty years knows
that is a fiction.  Effort invested in mastering old DOS programs can now be
viewed as largely wasted for example.  So the ability to easily move forward
with subsequent releases is a vital and essential feature.  That is the crux of
the problem with being stranded in Publisher 2000, if that makes sense to you.

BTW, the M$ escalation crew got involved when I was pissed off about problems
moving into Publisher 2002, and subsequently into Front Page 2002.  The top dog
also said he was aware of no larger website being done with Publisher.
Ironically, they asked permission to tout logwell.com as an example of what
could be done with Publisher (this was a few years back).  The site ain't
graphically pretty because it is meant to be accessible to primitive browsers in
the third world (a significant number of hits originate in the old Russian
Federation countries and even more remote parts of the world due to the arcane
content).  But it is big, as you noted about that long winded WRFN page.
JoAnn Paules - 21 Jun 2004 19:31 GMT
Young? Me? Thank you.  :-)

Signature

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

> Can you promise M$ will not orphan Publisher 2000?  Will it work in the
> next
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>>
>>Just look at the pros and cons of each one. good luck.

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