MS Office Forum / Publisher / Web Design / November 2005
Publisher 2003 saves my wepage as a filtered webpage, I don't like
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Mertens - 20 Jun 2004 22:28 GMT Is there any way I can save my webpage in another format than filtered in 2003? My website in 2002 was much more user friendly. It bothers me now that the images on my website take so much longer to load than they did in publisher 2002.
Thanks,
analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 01:14 GMT David will explain some tricks you can use when he responds to your post. But be advised that Publisher 2003 is a disaster at the moment for websites, as was Publisher 2002 prior to a bloated coding patch. Perhaps there will be a patch for 2003, but Publisher 2000 is actually the best of the bunch for websites if the site is more than a very few pages long.
In my humble opinion, M$ has screwed up badly with respect to Publisher and websites. It need not have been so if they had listened to the many complaints from users maintaining relatively large websites with Publisher.
Also be advised that complaining in here about these problems will get you labeled as a whiner, a fool, or worse.
>Is there any way I can save my webpage in another format than filtered in 2003? My website in 2002 was much more user friendly. It bothers me now that the images on my website take so much longer to load than they did in publisher 2002. > >Thanks, David Bartosik - MS MVP - 21 Jun 2004 01:50 GMT I have never called you a whiner or a fool. You and I don't seem to agree on anything though so we'll have to agree on that point at least.
 Signature David Bartosik - MS MVP for Publisher help: www.davidbartosik.com enter to win Pub 2003: www.davidbartosik.com/giveaway.aspx
> David will explain some tricks you can use when he responds to your post. But > be advised that Publisher 2003 is a disaster at the moment for websites, as was [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > >Is there any way I can save my webpage in another format than filtered in 2003? My website in 2002 was much more user friendly. It bothers me now that the images on my website take so much longer to load than they did in publisher 2002.
> >Thanks, analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 01:24 GMT And, btw, it is not that it is "filtered", it is that M$ has implemented new technology. All versions of Publisher generate peculiar html coding; even the best of the bunch (2000) generates fairly bulky nested table code. 2002 initially generated very bloated code, but that was later patched. 2003 generates bloated code for a different reason, but one would have thought M$ could have foreseen the outcome. Perhaps a choice of the coding engine would be desirable, but I am just thinking out loud about something that is way over my head. The bottom line is that 2003 was released (just like 2002 was) "not ready for prime time" with respect to web work.
>Is there any way I can save my webpage in another format than filtered in 2003? My website in 2002 was much more user friendly. It bothers me now that the images on my website take so much longer to load than they did in publisher 2002. > >Thanks, David Bartosik - MS MVP - 21 Jun 2004 02:25 GMT It is filtered in MS speak. It's a long story.
What mr analog doesn't know and may not appreciate, is that I have been (since 2002 ever released) and continue to be the biggest and loudest advocate for cleaner html coding in Publisher. I can't talk about it because of NDA's but I can tell you have met with the Publisher product group in Redmond a few times and I push the issue all the time.
With the next release of Publisher conservatively a couple of years out you have 3 options if you decide to use Publisher, Version 2000, or 2002, or 2003. You have to weigh the pros and cons of each one against what you require and go from there.
One thing that is invisible to the customers is that MVP's are on the front lines. We are the link between MS product groups and the customers. When a customer rants and raves up one thread and down the other I'd hope they can step back and understand that we know the pain points and we are already on it.
Recently it was announced how you can use default settings in 2002/2003. That was the direct result of MVP involvement. Another example would be web page file naming in 2003. Recently MS has had the MVP's author articles for the Office website to better get information to the customers.
Guess I'm looking for less negative attacks in this forum and more appreciation of the MVP's.
ok I'm off my soap box now.
 Signature David Bartosik - MS MVP for Publisher help: www.davidbartosik.com enter to win Pub 2003: www.davidbartosik.com/giveaway.aspx
> And, btw, it is not that it is "filtered", it is that M$ has implemented new > technology. All versions of Publisher generate peculiar html coding; even the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > >Is there any way I can save my webpage in another format than filtered in 2003? My website in 2002 was much more user friendly. It bothers me now that the images on my website take so much longer to load than they did in publisher 2002.
> >Thanks, analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 17:07 GMT David, you are a great guy, but M$ is full of crap. I very much appreciate your efforts, but remain a bit perplexed by your loyalty to M$. You have to understand that some of us users are extremely frustrated, and more than a little upset. It is human nature that you will be the brunt of some of that frustration. It is like a prison guard with the best of intentions being baffled that the prisoners blame him for the warden's policies. (For the benefit of the nit pickers, that is simile, and not metaphor).
Are you saying that the next release might be better? Can you ask them to be sure it can take 2000 created files and deal with them without major hassle?
>It is filtered in MS speak. It's a long story. > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >ok I'm off my soap box now. Napoleon - 07 Nov 2005 17:26 GMT I believe the "Filtered HTML" format is my issue also: I am attempting to publish one time from MS Publisher 2003 (utilizing nice templates) and then converting to solely using Frontpage 2003 with its added functionality. In effect, I want to configure Publisher so as to publish HTML code as though it was originally built in Frontpage w/o table encapsultated data, etc. Any suggestions on how to do this or how to get as close to this as possible. Using hosted site with FP extensions.
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NAP
> It is filtered in MS speak. It's a long story. > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > > > > >Thanks, Rob Giordano (Crash) - 08 Nov 2005 16:27 GMT Don't waste your time trying to convert a Pub created web to a FP created one...by the time you clean it up in FP you could have redone the web in FP three times over. Just redo the web in FP.
|I believe the "Filtered HTML" format is my issue also: | I am attempting to publish one time from MS Publisher 2003 (utilizing nice [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] | > > > | > > >Thanks, Napoleon - 10 Nov 2005 20:11 GMT Thanks much crash - I was starting to get that feeling!
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NAP
> Don't waste your time trying to convert a Pub created web to a FP created > one...by the time you clean it up in FP you could have redone the web in FP [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > | > > > > | > > >Thanks, Rob Giordano (Crash) - 11 Nov 2005 14:47 GMT You can still pull some stuff over from Pub, images etc....if you're familiar with FP it shouldnt take too long.
| Thanks much crash - I was starting to get that feeling! | [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] | > | > > > | > | > > >Thanks, David Bartosik - MS MVP - 21 Jun 2004 02:27 GMT In your 2002 did you load service pack 1? If so then your pages where "filtered" and are slightly similar to 2003. See my comparison at www.davidbartosik.com/pub11.htm If you did not have SP 1 then your 2002 pages would be much much much much more bloated then 2003.
 Signature David Bartosik - MS MVP for Publisher help: www.davidbartosik.com enter to win Pub 2003: www.davidbartosik.com/giveaway.aspx
> Is there any way I can save my webpage in another format than filtered in 2003? My website in 2002 was much more user friendly. It bothers me now that the images on my website take so much longer to load than they did in publisher 2002.
> Thanks, Mertens - 21 Jun 2004 16:38 GMT I am not quite sure if I loaded the service pack or not. I think I was using 2000. I might save all of my pages in the 2000 version on disk, wipe out 2003 and reload 2000. I am getting a lot of complaints from consumers that the website is not as functional as it was.
Here is a sample of my website if you would like to take a look:
http://animalshare.wantapet.com/animalplastics/index.html
Thanks to both of you for your responses, this is the first time I have posted questions. I have used this forum and your FAQ webpage to answer all of my other questions.
Mark Mertens
> In your 2002 did you load service pack 1? > If so then your pages where "filtered" and are slightly similar to 2003. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > > Thanks, David Bartosik - MS MVP - 21 Jun 2004 17:08 GMT The functionality complaints might be from non IE users. 2000 set to the 3.0 target setting will give you pretty good cross browser support whereas 2003 is designed for IE 5+ only.
Due to the way 2003 handles graphics I can't recommend it for a site that is graphic intensive like yours. The simplicity in 2000 would be a better fit in that respect.
Just look at the pros and cons of each one. good luck.
-- David Bartosik - MS MVP for Publisher help: www.davidbartosik.com enter to win Pub 2003: www.davidbartosik.com/giveaway.aspx
> I am not quite sure if I loaded the service pack or not. I think I was using 2000. I might save all of my pages in the 2000 version on disk, wipe out 2003 and reload 2000. I am getting a lot of complaints from consumers that the website is not as functional as it was.
> Here is a sample of my website if you would like to take a look: > > http://animalshare.wantapet.com/animalplastics/index.html > > Thanks to both of you for your responses, this is the first time I have posted questions. I have used this forum and your FAQ webpage to answer all of my other questions.
> Mark Mertens > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > > > > > Thanks, analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 17:21 GMT Can you promise M$ will not orphan Publisher 2000? Will it work in the next version of Winbloz? Based on past experience with older software, it scares me to me stranded in Publisher 2000. I suspect you MVPs are mostly a young bunch with limited long term perspective; I could be wrong, of course.
>The functionality complaints might be from non IE users. 2000 set to the 3.0 >target setting will give you pretty good cross browser support whereas 2003 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Just look at the pros and cons of each one. good luck. Brian Kvalheim - [MSFT MVP] - 21 Jun 2004 18:42 GMT Hi analog@logwell.com (analog@logwell.com), in the newsgroups you posted:
|| I suspect || you MVPs are mostly a young bunch with limited long term || perspective; I could be wrong, of course. Not young here! I will be 32 in September.
 Signature Brian Kvalheim Microsoft Publisher MVP http://www.publishermvps.com ~pay it forward~
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
JoAnn Paules - 21 Jun 2004 19:58 GMT Tee hee! I've got socks older than you!
 Signature JoAnn Paules MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
> Hi analog@logwell.com (analog@logwell.com), > in the newsgroups [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Not young here! I will be 32 in September. Brian Kvalheim - [MSFT MVP] - 21 Jun 2004 20:10 GMT Hi JoAnn Paules (jpaules@publishermvps.com), in the newsgroups you posted:
|| Tee hee! I've got socks older than you! Has it been 30+ years since you washed them too? :-)
 Signature Brian Kvalheim Microsoft Publisher MVP http://www.publishermvps.com ~pay it forward~
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
JoAnn Paules - 21 Jun 2004 20:17 GMT Yep - and they still smell better than you! :-P
 Signature JoAnn Paules MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
> Hi JoAnn Paules (jpaules@publishermvps.com), > in the newsgroups [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Has it been 30+ years since you washed them too? :-) analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 22:41 GMT Honest truth is that I have shoes older than him.
>Tee hee! I've got socks older than you! analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 22:40 GMT That is pretty young my friend.
>Hi analog@logwell.com (analog@logwell.com), >in the newsgroups [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Not young here! I will be 32 in September. JoAnn Paules - 21 Jun 2004 22:43 GMT It is - I'm technically old enough to be his mom. But if I had done what it would have taken to concieve him - my mom would have killed me!
 Signature JoAnn Paules MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
> That is pretty young my friend. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >>Not young here! I will be 32 in September. Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP] - 21 Jun 2004 23:12 GMT > That is pretty young my friend. Well, either way...young or not, I am pretty confident in my experience and knowledge in Publisher. But I am impressed that you called me your friend instead of a fool. I would much rather be a friend.
 Signature Brian Kvalheim Microsoft Publisher MVP http://www.publishermvps.com
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
analog@logwell.com - 21 Jun 2004 23:40 GMT I am a nice guy; actually an old pacifist. I have only been ragging you because you started this with some nasty comments about me a couple of weeks back when I first came in this group to see if Publisher 2003 would solve my problems. I am not just technically old enough to be your parent, I actually have a daughter a little older than you.
I use Publisher 2000 to build and maintain a 300 page commercial website that receives several thousand hits each day (and that is a bunch for an arcane technical site). I am also confident in my skills with Publisher, at least with respect to beating it into submission for web site work. I was using David's multiple file trick back in Publisher 98, and an escalation guy at M$ could not believe anybody would go to those lengths.
However, I am very upset that I have not been able to practically move into Publisher 2002, and now Publisher 2003. When I decided to bail out and go to Front Page is when I realized I was truly in deep dodo. It would take countless hours to do so at this late date. I now hope against hope that M$ will do the right thing and produce a future release of Publisher that does the job. If I have unrealistic expectations, I am sorry.
A page you may get a kick out of: http://www.logwell.com/WRFN/index.html
>> That is pretty young my friend. > >Well, either way...young or not, I am pretty confident in my experience and >knowledge in Publisher. But I am impressed that you called me your friend >instead of a fool. I would much rather be a friend. Brian Kvalheim - [MSFT MVP] - 22 Jun 2004 15:37 GMT Hi analog@logwell.com (analog@logwell.com), in the newsgroups you posted:
|| I am a nice guy; actually an old pacifist. I have only been ragging || you because you started this with some nasty comments about me a || couple of weeks back when I first came in this group to see if || Publisher 2003 would solve my problems. I am not just technically || old enough to be your parent, I actually have a daughter a little || older than you. Hopefully we get some nice improvements with the Publisher 2003 Service pack. We will be sure to inform YOU if they improved anything.
|| I use Publisher 2000 to build and maintain a 300 page commercial || website that receives several thousand hits each day (and that is a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] || trick back in Publisher 98, and an escalation guy at M$ could not || believe anybody would go to those lengths. That is a VERY large website for Publisher. Holy cow. Largest one I personally have ever heard of.
|| However, I am very upset that I have not been able to practically || move into Publisher 2002, and now Publisher 2003. When I decided to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] || future release of Publisher that does the job. If I have || unrealistic expectations, I am sorry. I can't imagine the work that is involved. I know that I have alot of work ahead of me converting my FrontPage 2003 created pages to a text format with html coding that will be used on our ASP.net site. But I will start plugging away :-(
|| A page you may get a kick out of: || http://www.logwell.com/WRFN/index.html That is a whole lot of reading on that page....whew! Before I was born!
 Signature Brian Kvalheim Microsoft Publisher MVP http://www.publishermvps.com ~pay it forward~
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
analog@logwell.com - 22 Jun 2004 19:40 GMT >|| I use Publisher 2000 to build and maintain a 300 page commercial >|| website that receives several thousand hits each day (and that is a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >That is a VERY large website for Publisher. Holy cow. Largest one I >personally have ever heard of. * I built it in Publisher because I was enticed by the idea I could use the same material for printed pages. M$ never said don't do that if you expect your website to grow to 300 pages. Nevertheless, I like using Publisher 2000, and in general am pleased with the job it does. There is a kind of elegance to David's multiple file trick, though it gets a bit complicated and certainly is not for everybody. Notwithstanding Bill's frequent comments about the utility of older versions of M$ software, anyone who has been using PCs for twenty years knows that is a fiction. Effort invested in mastering old DOS programs can now be viewed as largely wasted for example. So the ability to easily move forward with subsequent releases is a vital and essential feature. That is the crux of the problem with being stranded in Publisher 2000, if that makes sense to you.
BTW, the M$ escalation crew got involved when I was pissed off about problems moving into Publisher 2002, and subsequently into Front Page 2002. The top dog also said he was aware of no larger website being done with Publisher. Ironically, they asked permission to tout logwell.com as an example of what could be done with Publisher (this was a few years back). The site ain't graphically pretty because it is meant to be accessible to primitive browsers in the third world (a significant number of hits originate in the old Russian Federation countries and even more remote parts of the world due to the arcane content). But it is big, as you noted about that long winded WRFN page.
JoAnn Paules - 21 Jun 2004 19:31 GMT Young? Me? Thank you. :-)
 Signature JoAnn Paules MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
> Can you promise M$ will not orphan Publisher 2000? Will it work in the > next [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >>Just look at the pros and cons of each one. good luck.
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