Centering

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analog@logwell.com - 25 Jun 2004 06:08 GMT

In Publisher 2000, centering a title or headline between text that is full
justified or left justified results in a bunch of extra space above and below
the centered text. An example is seen on this page:
http://www.logwell.com/capabilities/equipment.html
None of the space above and below the category titles actually appears on the
layout, but it is seen on the web preview as well as the actual uploaded html.

This odd occurrence has bugged me for years, but I have learned to live with it.
It is possible to work around it a bit by creating many text boxes, but it is an
awkward fix. Can anyone explain what causes this, and if there is a cure?
Maybe it is just something sill I am doing, or failing to do? Does it also
happen in Publisher 2002 and 2003? I have a vague memory that it did not behave
the same when I briefly tried 2002.

TIA!

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David Bartosik - MS MVP - 25 Jun 2004 14:56 GMT

That spacing you see is a paragraph break versus a line break.
Since the formatting is different (center vs. left) it has to put the title
in one paragraph and the list in a second paragraph.
That is correct html and Pub 2000 is doing it properly.

If you didn't change formatting it could all be in one paragraph.

You do want to use as few text boxes as possible, see -
http://www.davidbartosik.com/pub2k/pub2k_4.htm

You could get around it by using separate text boxes, but the output would
likely be an image of the two text boxes rather then actual html text.
Publisher creates an image of anything it can't reproduce in html due to the
way html works.

Version 2002 and 2003 are all the more likely to create an image in order to
more accurately render the page layout and also use newer techniques that
expand on hmtl (which is where browser compatibility comes in to play) so
they may handle the same thing differently.

--
David Bartosik - MS MVP
for Publisher help:
www.davidbartosik.com
enter to win Pub 2003:
www.davidbartosik.com/giveaway.aspx

> In Publisher 2000, centering a title or headline between text that is full
> justified or left justified results in a bunch of extra space above and below
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> TIA!

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analog@logwell.com - 25 Jun 2004 20:46 GMT

>That spacing you see is a paragraph break versus a line break.
>Since the formatting is different (center vs. left) it has to put the title
>in one paragraph and the list in a second paragraph.
>That is correct html and Pub 2000 is doing it properly.
>
>If you didn't change formatting it could all be in one paragraph.

* What do you mean by if I didn't change formatting? I need the titles
centered, so what would I do to get control of that spacing and get titles
centered? I have tried just manually putting in spaces, but that does not
always render as dependably as centering for titles.

>You do want to use as few text boxes as possible, see -
>http://www.davidbartosik.com/pub2k/pub2k_4.htm
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Publisher creates an image of anything it can't reproduce in html due to the
>way html works.

* I have never seen this happen in Publisher 2000 UNLESS the text boxes
overlap. I have pages with dozens of text boxes, and if they are separated, I
have never seen a problem. For instance, each classified add on this page is in
its own text box:
http://www.logwell.com/classifieds/index.html
Is this bad technique?

>Version 2002 and 2003 are all the more likely to create an image in order to
>more accurately render the page layout and also use newer techniques that
>expand on hmtl (which is where browser compatibility comes in to play) so
>they may handle the same thing differently

*Oh just peachy... Maybe that was one of the reasons my Publisher 2000 files
would not translate well into 2002? Seems like M$ is clueless about continuity
of operations in Publisher. The Word development gang would never come out with
a new version that could not somehow properly deal with work product files from
at least the immediate previous version.

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David Bartosik - MS MVP - 25 Jun 2004 22:50 GMT

> * What do you mean by if I didn't change formatting? I need the titles
> centered, so what would I do to get control of that spacing and get titles
> centered? I have tried just manually putting in spaces, but that does not
> always render as dependably as centering for titles.

center vs. left justify formating. if you didn't have the two formats you
would get on paragraph not two. Again Pub 2000 is coding the correct html
for what you want. You'd get the same vertical paragraph space in FrontPage.

> * I have never seen this happen in Publisher 2000 UNLESS the text boxes
> overlap. I have pages with dozens of text boxes, and if they are separated, I
> have never seen a problem. For instance, each classified add on this page is in
> its own text box:
> http://www.logwell.com/classifieds/index.html

In this case since the formatting is the same the title and text are all in
one paragraph and thus no break.

> Is this bad technique?

not neccessasarily. In this case each one is in a separate table. The more
tables in a page the more code is in the page the more code in the page the
bigger the file size of the page. Which is what my article is about,
reducing tables and cells. If you used one text box for all of it you should
get less code and thus a smaller file. Though in this case probably not
much.

> >Version 2002 and 2003 are all the more likely to create an image in order to
> >more accurately render the page layout and also use newer techniques that
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> a new version that could not somehow properly deal with work product files from
> at least the immediate previous version.

A principle reason of sweeping change between version 2000 and version 2002
is that prior to the 2002 version the Publisher product group was
independent and did their own "thing". Version 2002 was the first release
after Publisher was formally and fully made a "Office" product putting the
Pub team under Office control. Meaning they have to do things the Office way
and use Office code. Word being a core Office product has no such transition
to work thru.

Signature

David Bartosik - MS MVP
for Publisher help:
www.davidbartosik.com
enter to win Pub 2003:
www.davidbartosik.com/giveaway.aspx

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analog@logwell.com - 26 Jun 2004 04:12 GMT

>> * What do you mean by if I didn't change formatting? I need the titles
>> centered, so what would I do to get control of that spacing and get titles
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>would get on paragraph not two. Again Pub 2000 is coding the correct html
>for what you want. You'd get the same vertical paragraph space in FrontPage.

** What? You mean there is no way to center something without extra space being
added above and below it on a webpage? That sure does not sound right.

>> * I have never seen this happen in Publisher 2000 UNLESS the text boxes
>> overlap. I have pages with dozens of text boxes, and if they are
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>In this case since the formatting is the same the title and text are all in
>one paragraph and thus no break.

** I meant I have not seen it convert to an image unless the text boxes
overlap, I understand there is no format change in that example. I was merely
baffled by your comment about using too many text boxes makes Publisher create
an image instead of plain ole text. Perhaps I misunderstood you.

>> Is this bad technique?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>get less code and thus a smaller file. Though in this case probably not
>much.

** Well that little extra bit of table code is dwarfed by all the bloated code
2003 apparently writes no matter what you do.>

>> >Version 2002 and 2003 are all the more likely to create an image in order
>to
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>and use Office code. Word being a core Office product has no such transition
>to work thru.

** Ohhhhh. What a pile of crap! If that is the case why is it so bloody
incompatible with other Office Programs? I have to say this is mind boggling.
They would have been better off staying on the Publisher 2000 track it seems to
me. I keep thinking things will get better, but the more you explain, the more
hopeless this Publisher for website situation seems to be.

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