MS Office Forum / Publisher / Web Design / February 2005
HTML code fragment alignment
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Chris - 07 Feb 2005 23:03 GMT Sorry for reposting but I never rec'd a response and didn't want my thread to get lost.
I added HTML code fragments to two sites. www.advancedaudioinc.com (See "Manufacturers Links") www.chrissmithtest.com (See any of the pages w/ "add to cart" or "view cart")
In the design view I have to misalign the fragment up and to the left to have it display correctly in IE. If you view the page in Netscape or Mozilla (The rest of my site looks correct in these browsers), you can see where I have had to position the fragments so that they correctly display in IE. As you see it in Netscapre is exactly how I had to arange the fragment in publisher
Another interesting note is that with the misaligned fragment, it will display correctly in IE on a standard monitor but not in a widescreen monitor such as my Dell 8600. My friend has an identical laptop and has the same problem viewing these fragments (The rest of the site appears fine to him).
David Bartosik [MSFT MVP] - 08 Feb 2005 01:09 GMT If I don't say anything it's because I have nothing to offer. Sorry dude. Both the issues you report here have previously come up in a couple earlier cases. However to date I have no understanding of the problem nor any resolution. I have reported them to MS.
David Bartosik - [MSFT MVP] www.publishermvps.com www.davidbartosik.com
> Sorry for reposting but I never rec'd a response and didn't want my thread > to [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > problem viewing these fragments (The rest of the site appears fine to > him). DavidF - 08 Feb 2005 02:13 GMT Chris,
I read your original post but was unclear about what you were asking. You say that you inserted a code fragment, but I didn't know what object, text, or what...or perhaps I am too dense to understand (very possible). When I go to the Manufactures page it all appears just fine in IE, but the list of manufacturers are 'misaligned' in Firefox...is this what you are talking about? And the other link...are you talking about the 'add to cart' icons?
If this is the case, one thing I have noticed is when I have tried to insert a code fragment into a text box, it wouldn't work. I had to just insert the code fragment directly into the pub page. Perhaps if you are inserting directly into a text box along with other text, this is a problem? Maybe describe more specifically what steps you are taking, and maybe then we can help more.
As per the laptop problems, as David B. said, that issue has come up before without an answer. I find my Dell laptop also produces the html code differently than my desktop, but have never figured out why for sure. Some have guessed that it has to do with resolution, different text sizing, etc, but I haven't read anything definitive. Sorry.
DavidF
> Sorry for reposting but I never rec'd a response and didn't want my thread to > get lost. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > such as my Dell 8600. My friend has an identical laptop and has the same > problem viewing these fragments (The rest of the site appears fine to him). Chris - 08 Feb 2005 18:29 GMT David,
I am not inserting HTML into a standard text box. I go to the Insert Menu and select HTML Code Fragment. This then creates a box (Similar to, but not, a text box) that you can insert your HTML into. On www.chrissmithtest.com, the "Add to Cart" and "View Cart" buttons are not graphics but a piece of HTML inserted. On www.advancedaudioinc.com, the "Manufactures Links" page includes hyperlinks that open the links in their own windows. This was done by inserting HTML fragments. As you see these buttons/links appear in Firefox is the position of the HTML code fragment box in Pub2003.
This creates a tremendous amount of work in that it is not WYSIWYG (whereas the rest of the page is). I have to guess (In general it is up and to the left) at the placement of the code fragment in Pub so that it will display correctly in IE. This takes quite a bit of trial and error to get the desired result. Positioning the fragments in the WYSIWYG methedology will generate a misaligned IE page (HTML fragments being shifted down and to the right) but a correct looking Netscape/Firefox page.
Hope this helps
> Chris, > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > problem viewing these fragments (The rest of the site appears fine to > him). DavidF - 09 Feb 2005 03:18 GMT Hey Chris,
I understand. I have found when inserting HTML code fragments with Pub 2000 that they can shift things around sometimes, and have had to adjust designs to compensate. In my case the inserted code makes other elements shift, not the code itself. I don't have a good answer for you. I'm sure you have tried everything, but what happens if you create a blank web page with no background and try inserting your code? Do you get WYSIWYG? Perhaps add one element at a time around the code to see if you can identify what elements don't like to play well. Are you using 'snap to'...have you varied the size of the code box... Like I said, no good answer I am afraid. Isn't web design fun?
DavidF
> David, > [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > > problem viewing these fragments (The rest of the site appears fine to > > him). Chris - 09 Feb 2005 07:35 GMT David,
I tried a blank design with just a bmp for positioning referrence and adding a fragment below but not touching it. Still the same problem. I also tried putting the fragment on the bmp and got the same problem.
I have tried to alter the size of the fragment box and it doesn't seem to matter.
I haven't tried adjusting/turning off the snap to grid. While I will entertain the idea (what else do I have to do with my time), but I am a little pessimistic. Web design is fun!
BTW - I really appreciate your help - Thanks
> Hey Chris, > [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] > > > > problem viewing these fragments (The rest of the site appears fine to > > > him). David Bartosik [MSFT MVP] - 09 Feb 2005 15:13 GMT DavidF, on code frags - what you would be experiencing in 2000 would be different from what I've seen with 2003. (due largely to CSS2 and VML in 2003) What you want to be sure and do DavidF is to determine about what dimensions on the output your html code is going to render at and use that in the layout stage. You need to size the code fragment box at as close to output size as possible when doing the layout. Because when the html code is rendered by the browser the browser will size everything on the page accordingly in relation (as opposed to 2003's absolution). It takes a good understanding of traditional html tables and cells to fully grasp the concept but I'll try to explain- if you create a text box with a single line of text on the pub page and just to the right of it you place a code fragment with html code that will render a graphic of 125 pixels by 125 pixels but you size the fragment box to the same height of the text box to it's left then the rendered output will be a 125 px tall graphic on the right and on the left a line of text with tons of blank space under it (and pushing down any content you designed below it). That is because the table cell containing the text has to be sized by the browser to match the neighboring cell holding that graphic which relationally sized the cells to 125 px height. So the best way to design the layout is to size the fragment box at 125 x 125 on the pub page and then size the text box to the same height and use that content area accordingly. Unfortunately 2000 has no pixel measurement (I finally got it into 2003) so you have to draw those fragment boxes at "roughly" the same area, 100 pixels is "roughly" an inch. If you always draw code fragments at about the same size has the output area then layout the page accordingly then your rendered page (using version 2000) should be pretty accurate to the design page.
David Bartosik - [MSFT MVP] www.publishermvps.com www.davidbartosik.com
> Hey Chris, > [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] >> > > problem viewing these fragments (The rest of the site appears fine to >> > him). DavidF - 10 Feb 2005 00:29 GMT David,
Thanks for taking the time to explain so well. I think I had learned some of this through trial and terror, but it is good to understand the theory and principles involved. As I have continued to use Pub 2000 to produce websites, I have had to learn a bit about html, JavaScript etc., in order to tweak as much as I can get from the program. I do wish it had pixel measurement though. Now if we/you can just get Microsoft to take the best of Pub 2000 web building function, add pixel measurements, and perhaps a couple new features in Pub 200whenever, then I might just have to upgrade.
DavidF
> DavidF, > on code frags - what you would be experiencing in 2000 would be different [quoted text clipped - 150 lines] > >> > > problem viewing these fragments (The rest of the site appears fine to > >> > him). Chris - 09 Feb 2005 19:17 GMT I tried an interesting experiment last night and ended up with some success.
I loaded my copy of Pub2003 onto my other Dell laptop (Sorry MS for violating the licensing policy but I'm at a dead end). My older laptop is a Dell 8100 w/ a standard aspect ratio running Win2000, latest ver of IE, and now Pub2003.
I brought over my files on a flash drive, opened them in pub, created a new document, then dragged over one page for testing. I then aligned the fragments with the WYSIWYG method, published to web, and it worked in both IE and Netscape.
I then (from my 8100) realigned all the other HTML frags from my entire site designed originally on the widescreen dell (8600), published to web from the 8100, and it works as it should.
The point of my story is that I can do all of the design on my 8600, align all objects as they should be by WYSIWYG, save the pub file, put it on a flash drive, open it on my 8100, publish to Web, then post that file to the server and it works as it should. While this isn't an ideal work around, it is exponentially better than the previous solution.
Turns out (i think at least) that I was correct with my original assumption that there is a "build issue" with Pub2003 on the 8600. When it converts these frags into the doc it doesn't build correctly. Maybe MS can use this info to fix the problem and not sue me for my licensing violation :)
> Sorry for reposting but I never rec'd a response and didn't want my thread to > get lost. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > such as my Dell 8600. My friend has an identical laptop and has the same > problem viewing these fragments (The rest of the site appears fine to him). David Bartosik [MSFT MVP] - 09 Feb 2005 21:14 GMT Hardware does not effect the code generation. It's a display issue with laptops. Seemingly with Dells.
To be helpful we'd need you to post graphics details on both machines...
graphics card model video driver with version resolution setting physical screen size
David Bartosik - [MSFT MVP] www.publishermvps.com www.davidbartosik.com
>I tried an interesting experiment last night and ended up with some >success. [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] >> problem viewing these fragments (The rest of the site appears fine to >> him). Chris - 09 Feb 2005 23:21 GMT Since I use the 8600 ervery day, here it is: Laptop: Dell 8600 w/ widescreen monitor Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 Driver Ver: 4.5.8.6 Resolution: WSXGA+ up to 1680 x 1050 (Used at 1280 x 800, I have adjusted this to the other options and have seen no change wrt my problem) Screen Size: 15.4" Widescreen
Please note that hooking up the 8600 to an external standard monitor, then setting the resolution to a standard aspect (ie not widescreen) and using the laptop as a tower does not produce any different of a result.
The 8100 resides at home on a shelf but what's below is what I recall - sorry no driver version. I'll repost next time I see it. Laptop: Dell 8100 w/ Standard Aspect Monitor Video Card: Nvidia GeForce2 Go Driver Ver: ? Resolution: 1600 x 1200 Screen Size: 15" Standard Aspect Monitor
> Hardware does not effect the code generation. It's a display issue with > laptops. Seemingly with Dells. [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > >> problem viewing these fragments (The rest of the site appears fine to > >> him).
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