MS Office Forum / Publisher / Web Design / April 2008
Once saved as a website, can't open them again in publisher
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JaneinPA - 24 Apr 2008 16:19 GMT I'm new to making websites in Publisher. I didn't realize that when I save as a website that Publisher will not open the files again. How does one get around this (without having to open the files in Dreamweaver!)
DavidF - 24 Apr 2008 16:37 GMT Publisher is a DTP with the ability to produce web pages, but it is not a code editor. Assuming that you saved the original Pub file, you open it, make any desired changes, and "Publish to the Web" to produce new web pages....you don't edit the old html, you replace it with new. Depending upon the version you use, you do not "Save As a Web Page" to produce the html code.
If you didn't keep your original pub file, then post back and there is a way to reproduce a Pub file from the html code, but it is tedious. Meanwhile you might want to read:
Reference: Using Publisher for web sites : http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/articles/80566.aspx
Reference: Prepare, publish, and maintain your Publisher Web site: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/HA100947601033.aspx
Publisher is intended for relatively simple, small and static websites. If your goals for your site are beyond that, then you might want to consider using a different program.
DavidF
> I'm new to making websites in Publisher. I didn't realize that when I > save > as a website that Publisher will not open the files again. How does one > get > around this (without having to open the files in Dreamweaver!) JaneinPA - 24 Apr 2008 17:34 GMT Well, of course I didn't save the publisher files, but it's not so important for this project. I planned to use it in the summer to teach a kids web design course & it's good I discovered this now! So the best bet is to save as publisher files and then save as a website at the very end?
> Publisher is a DTP with the ability to produce web pages, but it is not a > code editor. Assuming that you saved the original Pub file, you open it, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > get > > around this (without having to open the files in Dreamweaver!) Rob Giordano (Crash) - 24 Apr 2008 23:25 GMT If you use Pub to teach a web design course you will be teaching them ONLY Publisher's way. They'd learn much more about web design and html if you used a regular web editor and not a dtp program like Publisher.
 Signature ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rob Giordano Microsoft MVP Expression
> Well, of course I didn't save the publisher files, but it's not so > important [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >> > get >> > around this (without having to open the files in Dreamweaver!) JaneinPA - 25 Apr 2008 13:16 GMT This will be for really young kids, ages 10 & 11. I do use Dreamweaver when I teach an older group of kids. I think Dreamweaver is a little much for the young ones. I tried doing it in Word last year, but that was not very successful.
> If you use Pub to teach a web design course you will be teaching them ONLY > Publisher's way. They'd learn much more about web design and html if you [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > >> > get > >> > around this (without having to open the files in Dreamweaver!) DavidF - 25 Apr 2008 13:47 GMT Jane,
I wrote my other replies before seeing this post. I agree with you. Rob and other experts tend to forget that there are groups of people in the world where using a full fledged web editor is simply overkill. You can produce a good looking and fully funcional site with Publisher. Here are just a few examples:
http://www.beltonstud.com/ http://www.summitcts.com/ http://devonviewcaravans.co.uk/ http://www.mjyso.com/ http://www.makingsenseofeducation.co.uk/ http://stillwaterjovolleyball.org/index.htm
DavidF
> This will be for really young kids, ages 10 & 11. I do use Dreamweaver > when [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >> >> > get >> >> > around this (without having to open the files in Dreamweaver!) Rob Giordano (Crash) - 25 Apr 2008 20:22 GMT Well, because you'd be teaching them absolutely nothing about how a website is designed, you can't even touch the code or even see it unless you jump through hoops. CoffeeCup or Serif's web designer would probably be better choices than Publisher.
 Signature ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rob Giordano Microsoft MVP Expression
> Jane, > [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] >>> >> > get >>> >> > around this (without having to open the files in Dreamweaver!) DavidF - 26 Apr 2008 02:35 GMT Given that she has to choose between Word and Publisher, Publisher is the better choice. Given that she has only a week, and 10 year olds, teaching coding is unrealistic. If you do a web page preview, View > source the kids can see the code. If they direct the output to the local computer, they can open the .htm files in NotePad and see the code. I don't see either as a big hoops to jump through. I also think that she can introduce people to coding, and the difference between print media and web media with Publisher more easily than if she was trying to use a web editor, and a big part of web design IMHO has nothing to do with coding...it has to do with understanding the different mediums, structuring a logical navigation system, etc. All these things can be easily introduced with Publisher.
As I always try to say in this group, it all depends upon the scope and goals of what the users is wanting to do. In this case I think Publisher will be a great teaching tool...
DavidF
> Well, because you'd be teaching them absolutely nothing about how a > website is designed, you can't even touch the code or even see it unless [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] >>>> >> > get >>>> >> > around this (without having to open the files in Dreamweaver!) DavidF - 25 Apr 2008 13:29 GMT Why would it necessarily be teaching them ONLY Publisher way? Couldn't it be just one part of an introduction to web building? She could still talk about the html coding that is going on in the background in Publisher. She could reference sites such as http://webdesignfromscratch.com/ and http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/ for those kids that want to take it to another level. She could talk about NVU, Dreamweaver, Web Expression and full fledged web editors.
Once again, I think that the decision about whether Publisher is the correct tool to use depends upon the scope and goals of what she is trying to do. If you have an 8 year old, that is using a school computer with Publisher already installed, and you are already introducing the kid to DTP, and the kid will be in a short 4 week summer program, then would you still suggest that each kid go out and buy Web Expression...or even try to use NVU or learn html coding? All of that would be overkill and inappropriate in my mind.
DavidF
> If you use Pub to teach a web design course you will be teaching them ONLY > Publisher's way. They'd learn much more about web design and html if you [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >>> > get >>> > around this (without having to open the files in Dreamweaver!) DavidF - 25 Apr 2008 13:16 GMT Jane,
Contrary to Rob, I think Publisher can be a good tool to introduce kids to web design, depending upon the age group and the goals and scope of what you are trying to accomplish. I disagree with Rob that teaching a full web editor and html coding is necessary to introduce a child to web building. It also sounds like the teacher needs to do a little homework before she will be ready to teach the use of this tool.
Which version of Publisher will you and the kids be using? Will they be using school computers with Publisher already installed? What age group are these kids? Are you also introducing them to desktop publishing? I will be happy to provide you with links to some more reference material and articles that will explain how best to use Publisher for this task, if you would explain to me what you are tying to do in more detail.
DavidF
> Well, of course I didn't save the publisher files, but it's not so > important [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >> > get >> > around this (without having to open the files in Dreamweaver!) JaneinPA - 25 Apr 2008 15:28 GMT I am teaching a 1-week summer camp for 10 & 11 year olds. It is given at a local college which has the Office Suite installed (also the Adobe suite). The objective is to offer a fun course that will produce nice, creative sites in a very short time.
> Jane, > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > >> > get > >> > around this (without having to open the files in Dreamweaver!) DavidF - 26 Apr 2008 02:17 GMT Jane,
Try to find out which version of Office and Publisher you will be using, because MSFT has changed the html coding engine and how Publisher produces a web site over the years. It would be best if you knew which version you were working with before the class started. I do think that Publisher is a better choice than Word for your purposes, as it will be easier for the kids to layout the pages. There are a lot of good templates the kids can use. You might also find out if the Adobe Suite has Photoshop or Photoshop Elements, as I would imagine that images will be a big part of any kids website, and how you handle images in Publisher web pages again varies with the version of Publisher.
Be sure to review the main link I gave you before:
Prepare, publish, and maintain your Publisher Web site: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/HA100947601033.aspx And in particular the instructions on how to upload pages. If you aren't going to upload the pages, then this is moot. But once again, depending upon whether you are using Vista or XP, HTTP uploading or FTP uploading, there are a lot of differences. FTP uploading, and not using any forms in your websites is the easiest to deal with. If you are going to upload, you might get in early and get the FTP connection established. Uploading problems seem to be one of the most common problems in this group.
Publisher and the Web 2003: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/CH062559071033.aspx Hopefully you will be using Pub 2003. Here is a link to MSFT articles about using Pub 2003. And if you have Pub 2003 on your personal computer, then the Help section is pretty good and worth studying. It is far better than Pub 2007 Help which was really shortchanged.
Publisher 2003 - What's new in web design for this version: http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80555.aspx You might want to read this article before jumping into the MSFT articles. David Bartosik explains some of the specifics about how 2003 works that will probably be important to you. And while I am talking about 2003, be sure to go to Tools > Options > Web tab and study the options there. You will want to uncheck "Rely on VML..." and "Allow PNG..." in every case. You might also want to uncheck the option about incremental uploading...it only works with HTTP uploading and FPSE. And before I forget it, don't use a Master Page in a web publication.
Web Publication Changes Made in Version 2002 of Publisher : http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/81262.aspx Hopefully you won't be saddled with using Pub 2002 as it is the worse version of Publisher for web building IMHO. Never the less, you might want to read this along with the article about 2003 to get an idea of the evolution of the product.
Designing and creating Web sites 2007: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/CH100793371033.aspx Though you probably won't be using 2007, here is a link to the MSFT articles about using Pub 2007.
Understanding background padding in a Publisher web (aka white space) : http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/archive/2006/01/07/80563.aspx Publisher pages use absolute positioning and are fixed width and left justified by default. And though it is possible to edit the code directly to center the pages, this is certainly beyond the scope of your camp.
Compress graphics file sizes to create smaller Publisher Web pages: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/HA011266301033.aspx As I indicated above, I would expect that kids will want lots of graphics and images, but depending upon the version of Publisher you use, if you insert a "print formatted" image into a web publication, Publisher 2003 does not automatically resize and optimize the image for the web. This referenced tool will resample and compress inserted images to 96 dpi. Once again, you should check the computers you will be using to see if the SP has been installed and whether the compress graphics tool has been added to the picture tool bar. And if you do have access to an image editor such as Photoshop Elements, you can explain to the kids about how to resample and optimize images for the web before they insert them.
How to Thumbnail in Publisher Web Publications : http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80553.aspx Once again, I would anticipate that the kids will want to know how to click on a thumbnail and get a larger image, so understanding how to create and use thumbnails might be important to you.
Including external files in a Publisher web : http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/archive/2006/01/07/80561.aspx This may be beyond what you will get into in a week.
Web safe fonts in Publisher 2003 web publications : http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/archive/2006/01/06/81275.aspx Another place to explain the difference between print formatted publications and web formatted publications.
Add a page to your Web site: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/HP100676881033.aspx?pid=CH100793371033 I don't know if you will be using a Publisher template, but the kids will certainly be wanting to add pages. Its important that you understand how to add a page, and at the same time add that page to the navigation bar. If you have 2003 on your home computer, read up on "navigation" in Help. The navbar wizard is a handy tool, but it can get messed up quickly. Be sure to note that the wizard built navbar will be using relative links vs. absolute links. How to build good navigation in a site seems an important part of what you may be doing.
Publisher web publication forms 101: http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/archive/2006/01/07/80564.aspx Publisher web forms require FPSE and HTTP uploading. I include this link for your information, but you should probably avoid forms in the kids webs. Uploading and getting the forms to work is one of the biggest issues in this group.
Web forms : http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/CH063576891033.aspx
David Bartosik a former MVP included a series of articles by other authors that were related to Publisher web sites. Here are links to some that might be of interest to you:
How To Layout Your Web Pages by Herman Drost : http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80814.aspx
How to Create an Effective Web Site Navigation Structure - Part 1 by Herman Drost : http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80830.aspx
How to Create an Effective Navigation Structure for Your Site Part 2 by Herman Drost : http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80831.aspx
How to Prepare Images for Your Web Site by Herman Drost : http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80829.aspx
How to Prepare Images for Your Web Site - Part 2 by Herman Drost: http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80828.aspx
Look, we all know that Publisher is not the best tool for producing websites, but given the scope of what you are trying to do in the limited time you have, it is probably a good choice. With that said, it is probably important that the kids know that Publisher is a DTP and is converting the publication to HTML in the background, and that if they ever want to get serious about web building they need to understand coding. One way to expose them to the code is when you Publish to the Web, direct the output to a folder on your hard drive where you can find it. I usually suggest the Desktop. Then the kids can open the .htm files with NotePad to see the code. Point out to them that a code editor such as Dreamweaver, Web Expression and the ol' FrontPage allows the code to be directly edited and thus you do not have the limitations of Publisher. At the same time by using Publisher you have the opportunity to explain the difference between print medium and web medium, and how you can do some things in each that you can't do in the other...that it requires a different mindset and different design techniques. In this respect I think Publisher can be an excellent tool for you as it give you a logical way of showing the difference between the two mediums.
I hope all this helps. As a teacher I am sure you are busy and I hope I didn't overload you with too many links and too much information. Good luck and if you have any questions, please post back.
DavidF
>I am teaching a 1-week summer camp for 10 & 11 year olds. It is given at a > local college which has the Office Suite installed (also the Adobe suite). [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] >> >> > get >> >> > around this (without having to open the files in Dreamweaver!)
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