MS Office Forum / Word / Long Documents / November 2004
how to handle large document organization
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Chip Orange - 05 Apr 2004 15:32 GMT We're converting from wp to Word 2002.
We decided, because of what we read, not to make use of Word's master document feature, but to create one large 800 page document using sections and outline view.
Our users have complained that this can be very slow at times, in particular, using the undo feature can take 1 minute to undo a simple change (and so can the automatic backup feature).
Given that master document shouldn't be used; how should we organize a large document which must have a table of contents and an index, and which is frequently updated and viewed? We do not necessarily need the ability to update multiple portions concurrently.
thanks for suggestions.
Chip
Charles Kenyon - 05 Apr 2004 17:15 GMT Learn about styles first. Then apply Word's built-in heading styles to your headings (change the formatting of the styles to suit your use). This will allow you to easily generate a Table of Contents with hyperlinks and let you use the Document Map feature.
The best way to improve the speed of handling is to add RAM to your computers.
Make sure that the Fast Saves option is turned OFF. This will wreck your document.
What follows is general advice on moving to Word from WP:
Word and Word Perfect work very differently from one another. Each program's methods have strengths and weaknesses; but, if you try to use one of these programs as if it were the other, it is like pushing on a string! You can easily make a lot of extra work for yourself. If you are unwilling to take the time to learn to use Word's methods, you should stick to using Word Pad. You'll have a lot less grief, although you'll miss out on a lot of raw power.
See <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/WordVsWordPerfect.htm> <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/TipsAndGotchas.htm> <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/RevealCodes.htm> <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/WordPerfectConverters.htm> <URL: http://businesssoft.about.com/compute/businesssoft/library/blconvert.htm> for information on Word for Word Perfect users.
For more: <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/CreateATemplatePart2.htm> <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/CreateATemplatePart1.htm> <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm> <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/WhatTemplatesStore.htm>
In Word 2000 (or later) You can get the function keys to display in a special toolbar at the bottom of the screen if you want (something like pressing F3 twice in WP). The following macro will do this. Sub ShowMeFunctionKeys() Commandbars("Function Key Display").Visible = True End Sub
Learn about Styles - really learn! I resisted for years and now regret every day of those years because although that string was still very hard to push, it kept getting longer and longer, and had some very important projects tied to it!
In Word Perfect macros are often used to reproduce text. In Word you want to use templates, AutoText and AutoCorrect for this. You can use FILLIN and ASK fields or UserForms to query the user. For some form documents, Word's "online forms" work very well. For more about online forms, follow the links at <URL: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customization/FillinTheBlanks.htm> especially Dian Chapman's series of articles.
I would not recommend using converted documents long-term. They will be filled with formatting anomolies that will get you at the worst time. This is especially true of any documents containing automatic numbering or bullets. Try recreating form documents in Word using the following process:
In Word Perfect (if you still have it, in Word if not) save your files as text files.
Use your converted files as references to show you how you want your formatting to look.
Create a new document in Word and insert the text from the text file. Save this new document as a Word template. Format it the way you want using styles, not direct formatting. Save it again.
To use a template within Word, use File => New and pick your template. This will create a new document for you.
 Signature Charles Kenyon
See the MVP FAQ: <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/> which is awesome! --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> We're converting from wp to Word 2002. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Chip Chip Orange - 05 Apr 2004 18:29 GMT Thanks Charles for the response.
We've already taken all your advice, and I've read many, if not most, of those articles.
I probably didn't make my problem clear enough; it's not how to convert from WP to Word (yes, we've become very proficient with styles and use them constantly), but, it's how to replace the WP master document feature.
The need here, since Words master document feature is problematic, for suggestions to help me improve the speed in dealing with very large documents. Alternatively, someone might suggest to me that use of the includetext field is the way to go. But for now, unless we break the document down into parts without use of the master document feature, things can get very slow at times, and as I understood your suggestions, none of them pertained directly to the speed of Words operations.
What we have is a document, created from scratch, defined in many sections with liberal use of the heading style to make TOC and document map easy. The text of the document is being pasted in, bit by bit, from WP copy/paste operations, as unformatted text.
As our Word document grows in size, it grows ever slower to operate on it.
We have 1.8 ghz pcs with 512mb of RAM, and the only obvious slow item is that our automatic backup files are set to go to a network server directory (for reasons of recovery by network administrators). There is some disagreement amongst the ITS folks here as to whether this is a good idea or not.
Obviously the temporary files directory is left pointing to the local hard drive.
The document being worked on is stored on a network drive.
Any further suggestions would be appreciated.
Chip
> Learn about styles first. Then apply Word's built-in heading styles to your > headings (change the formatting of the styles to suit your use). This will [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > For more: > <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/CreateATemplatePart2.htm>
> <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/CreateATemplatePart1.htm>
> <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm> > <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/WhatTemplatesStore.htm> [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > > > Chip Charles Kenyon - 05 Apr 2004 20:01 GMT Hi,
It sounds as if network speed may be your bottleneck. More RAM might still help. Try maxing out one machine and benchmarking it against another doing the same things. Scrolling through a large document in RAM is a very different experience from doing the same using Windows disk paging.
If you have Norton AV software, disable the "Office Plug-In" as it can slow document opening and processing.
In a document that size, if you can format it only using styles, that should speed things up and will make editing much faster. Don't use empty paragraphs for spacing. Each paragraph mark in a document with direct formatting can contain over 50 formatting codes. I believe these are reduced to one or two by style formatting.
As Dayo said, processing in normal view (with autopagination turned off) makes Word much more responsive. Specify use of a draft font in normal view.
I mentioned the Fast Saves option. This _must_ be turned off. They are not fast, they are disaster-prone. This is a hold-over from the days of very slow disk drives and slow processors.
If you are working on the document on a network drive, the temporary files are _not_ being saved locally. Word saves its main temporary document files in the folder with the document. The automatic backup files (as well as the autorecover files) will be saved to your network drive. If this folder is restricted, that could be slowing Word down. (This last statement is speculation, not knowledge.)
 Signature Charles Kenyon
See the MVP FAQ: <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/> which is awesome! --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> Thanks Charles for the response. > [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/WordPerfectConverters.htm> > > <URL: http://businesssoft.about.com/compute/businesssoft/library/blconvert.htm>
> > for information on Word for Word Perfect users. > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/CreateATemplatePart1.htm> > > <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm>
> > <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/WhatTemplatesStore.htm>
> > In Word 2000 (or later) You can get the function keys to display in a > > special toolbar at the bottom of the screen if you want (something like [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > > > > > Chip Chip Orange - 05 Apr 2004 22:30 GMT thanks again for your response.
We don't have Norton AV software (we have Mcafee on the clients) and also, Mcafee real-time AV scanning on the Novell Netware server.
I'll ask about the pc in question, but I don't think we have anything with less than 512mb of ram.
I don't guess there's anything we can do to get Word to put its temp files on C: even when working with a networked document?
Chip
> Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 193 lines] > > > > > > > > Chip Bob S - 08 Apr 2004 01:17 GMT >I don't guess there's anything we can do to get Word to put its temp files >on C: even when working with a networked document? Not directly. The temp file locations are hard-wired.
One approach is to manually copy the DOC file from the server to the local PC and open it in Word there. Copy it back when you are done. At th every least you should try this once to see whether it makes a difference.
Another thing to consider is the "make local copy" option. Here are some notes about that possibility:
*******
Word 2002 has an option called "Make local copy of files stored on network or removable drives". The option is located in Tools | Options
| Save, and is off by default. (You can also tamper with the registry to override this setting, see the article.) The explanation of what the option does is found in article 277010 and is rather complex. Here is how I understand it.
First, this started as an attempt to eliminate the problems with using files on floppy disks. (It seems appropriate that Microsoft should finally have a shot at fixing this problem now that floppy disks are in the twilight of their career.) When you use Word 2002 to open a file on a removable medium of 3MB or smaller total drive size (i.e. a floppy disk), Word first makes a copy of the file in the TEMP folder, then opens the copy. All of Word's temporary files are thus on the hard drive, so Word does not run out of space. Whenever you push Save, Word updates both the temporary file and the original on the floppy. When you close the file, Word deletes the temporary copy file. All of this is built-in and not optional.
What setting the option does is to enable all of this mechanism if the file is on a network or removable drive that is larger than 3MB. (Actually, the article disagrees with itself on whether the copy is actually made for large drives. Testing is needed.)
However, Microsoft has also grafted on another piece of function, which is controlled by this same option. It seems that in prior versions of Word, if your computer went into Suspend mode to reduce power, all file locks on the files that you were working on were dropped. The consequence was that if the file was on a shared network drive and someone else tried to open it, they would succeed. They could make changes to the file and save them. Then when your computer woke up again, you could save changes that you had made to the file, overwriting the changes the other user had made.
Apparently if you set this new option, Word does not drop the file locks if your computer goes into Suspend mode, avoiding the possibility of lost edits by another user. The cost is that since the locks are held by your suspended computer, the setting prevents any edits by another user until you and your computer wake up. The article also claims that if the option is turned on, the usual "owner file" is not created by Word when a file is opened.
*****
By the way, you said that the document is 800 pages, but I didn't notice where you said how big it is in MB. I have a simple (no pictures, etc) 500 page document that takes about 5MB and is quite quick to deal with.
Bob S
Dayo Mitchell - 05 Apr 2004 17:46 GMT > We decided, because of what we read, not to make use of Word's master > document feature, but to create one large 800 page document using sections [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > particular, using the undo feature can take 1 minute to undo a simple change > (and so can the automatic backup feature). This sounds like subpar Word performance, even with an 800-page document. That is, Word is *not* inherently slow with such long documents. How fast are the computers you are running this on, how much memory do they have, etc. Have you done maintenance on your computer lately?
Or slowness is sometimes a sign of a corrupt doc. Here's info on that: http://word.mvps.org/faqs/AppErrors/CorruptDoc.htm
Normal View is much faster than Page Layout for long documents.
Also note that is *not* automatic backup--it is AutoRecover and works only if Word crashes, and sometimes can attempt to recover a doc that is *older* than your last save. See here for more info: http://word.mvps.org/faqs/general/AutomaticSave.htm
If you want to break the document up, you could investigate the IncludeText field for when you need to pull it all together.
DM
adriant - 22 Nov 2004 15:23 GMT I was reading this thread to get some help on the 'make local copy of files stored on network.....' setting for my Word 2002. Earlier today I noticed this box and, thinking it would be a good idea, checked the box. Loading my current manual from the network, I worked away all morning, saving frequently as is my wont, and half an hour ago, needing a break decided to close the document. I was dismayed to find that the original file on the netword had not been updated at all and the only other files I could find, in the regular Temp files location, were only that; a bunch of temp files. Opening all these in turn eventually I found the most recent one. Phew! But what went wrong, why did Word not update that original network version?
As for large files, I avoid working on Word docs over 3mb, say 200 pages inc. illustrations.. It all gets slow and flakey beyond that, although I admit my PC is not of the latest specs. Good luck with the WP conversion but that seems like a job for a specialist!
--- Message posted from http://www.ExcelForum.com/
|
|
|