MS Office Forum / Word / Numbering / January 2006
Non-standard Page numbering and Indexing question
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Ray Cox - 07 Jan 2006 18:22 GMT Because of unique needs of my document (230 pages) I am using a manual page numbering scheme instead of using any of the automated page numbering features in Word 2003. My problem comes when I need to create an index.
The numbering in the document is offset from the actual Word page number, i.e. I need for numbering for indexing purposes to start page 1 at actual page 3 of the Word document.
I can use the Word techniques for altering the numbering (start over with page 1 at page 3, etc.) but then I have to use the Word auto page numbering feature, which will print a page number in addition to my own manually entered page number.
How can I offset the MS page number for indexing purposes without having an auto-generated page number print on each page?
R Cox
Daiya Mitchell - 07 Jan 2006 19:13 GMT Manually entering page numbers sounds like a bad idea and is going to be very difficult to maintain. I'd be interested in hear the rationale there--it's likely there's a way to make Word fulfill those needs. Particularly since it sounds like the index is going to be wrong, as of course it's going to refer people to the Word-generated page number, not what you have as a page number. So how will they find the right page, since that number won't be printed on it?
However, some possibilities for what you say you want to do:
Try this: *don't* enter a page number. View | Header/Footer and click on the Format Page Number icon on the H/F toolbar (# with a hand). I'm not sure Word will let you format a page number when you haven't used one, but give it a try. This might be really tricky to maintain, as you won't know if it worked, cause you won't be able to see the number.
Alternatively, View | Header/Footer, enter the Word page number into the footer, then select the page number, and use Format | Font to format it as hidden text so that it should not print. You can toggle viewing hidden text with ¶ on the standard toolbar, and in Tools | Options | Print, make sure hidden text is not set to print. This is probably the best option. If you already have a lot of section breaks, and you have unlinked the headers from each other, you may need to repeat this in each section.
Alternatively, when you use Insert | Page Number, the page number is put in the header in a frame. You could possibly drag that frame to a non-printing area of the page, say right above the bottom edge where most printers won't print text. But frames occasionally wander--I'd say that is the worst option.
> Because of unique needs of my document (230 pages) I am using a manual page > numbering scheme instead of using any of the automated page numbering [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > R Cox
 Signature Daiya Mitchell, MVP Mac/Word Word FAQ: http://www.word.mvps.org/ MacWord Tips: <http://www.word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/> What's an MVP? A volunteer! Read the FAQ: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Ray Cox - 07 Jan 2006 20:18 GMT > Manually entering page numbers sounds like a bad idea and is going to be > very difficult to maintain. I'd be interested in hear the rationale > there--it's likely there's a way to make Word fulfill those needs. An organization I belong to is going to reprint a book that they originally published in 1980. We also wanted to make corrections as needed and to make a text-searchable and indexed CD version of the book. The original book was obviously not created electronically (no electronic file existed), so we recreated the book for our 2nd edition by scanning, OCRing, and recreating each page in electronic format. The book is a formatting nightmare, with the format changing with almost every page (lots of historical documents, articles written by different people, pictures (from 1 to 4) printed in different areas of each page, etc...there are 68 sections within the first 80 pages). We also wanted to keep the original "look and feel" of the original book, and that is the bottom line as far as the decision to manually do page numbers is concerned. The various Word page options just can't exactly duplicate the page number location in the original book. Since we will be creating each page to contain exactly the same text and format as the original page, we don't have to deal with the problem of flowing text constantly changing it's location with respect to page number, so the manual page number entry doesn't end up causing a problem. I use a separate text box set to float above all other text, so it is anchored and stays in the same place regardless of what happens during editing of that page.
I tried all of your suggestions (and thanks for taking the time to present them) but none of them ended up hiding an auto-generated page number so that it didn't print.
After some experimenting, however, I did find out how to do what I needed.
1. Entered a continuous section break on the page prior to where I wanted numbering to restart to correspond with the printed document page numbers.
2. Use the Insert | Page Numbers | Format feature to designate what number to start "my" page 1 at.
3. Remove the Page Number from the Header/Footer as follows: Select View | Header and Footer; switch to footer; select the frame around the page number showing in the footer; press Delete.
This deletes the page numbers from ALL footers, but somehow leaves the document renumbering done in step 1 in place. I can select any page, and the page number shown at the far left of the status bar will agree with the page number (for printing) entered in my document. Hopefully (I haven't done the final step of indexing yet) the numbers generated by the index feature will correspond with the renumbered pages.
Hope this might help someone else with this sticky of a problem that MS didn't really think of a direct way of doing.
Ray
> Particularly since it sounds like the index is going to be wrong, as of > course it's going to refer people to the Word-generated page number, not [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> >> R Cox Daiya Mitchell - 07 Jan 2006 20:34 GMT Interesting.....thanks for the explanation....
The hidden text trick did work fine here, but just in a simple test document.
>> Manually entering page numbers sounds like a bad idea and is going to be >> very difficult to maintain. I'd be interested in hear the rationale [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > After some experimenting, however, I did find out how to do what I needed. <snip>
Daiya Mitchell - 08 Jan 2006 19:25 GMT Ya know, I just did a quick test and it seems like putting Word's page number field in a text box works fine to number pages. Anchoring the text box in the header means it shows up on every page in the same place, and setting the wrapping to Square wraps text around it.
I'm guessing a frame would also have worked.
>> Manually entering page numbers sounds like a bad idea and is going to be >> very difficult to maintain. I'd be interested in hear the rationale [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > stays in the same place regardless of what happens during editing of that > page. Suzanne S. Barnhill - 08 Jan 2006 20:59 GMT A frame will certainly work, as that's what Insert | Page Numbers uses, but I assume you're talking about a frame anchored to the text on the page rather than the header paragraph? Certainly this would work because a { PAGE } field always reflects the current page number (as defined by Format Page Number), regardless of where it is placed on the page.
 Signature Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit.
> Ya know, I just did a quick test and it seems like putting Word's page > number field in a text box works fine to number pages. Anchoring the text [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > stays in the same place regardless of what happens during editing of that > > page. Suzanne S. Barnhill - 07 Jan 2006 19:27 GMT Like Daiya, I think manually numbering pages is doomed to failure, and I suspect it's possible to achieve what you want in a different way. It is perfectly possible to get Word to start numbering pages at 1 on page 3 (omitting numbers on the first two pages) and many other much more complex schemes. I suspect that you've only looked at the Insert | Page Numbers dialog and concluded that it didn't meet your needs. We actually don't advise using page numbers inserted that way anyway. It's much better to insert them directly in the header/footer.
I suggest you read the following articles and post back if you find you still need to number your pages manually:
How to control the page numbering in a Word document http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Numbering/PageNumbering.htm
How to set up a document with front matter numbered separately http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/NumberingFrontMatter.htm
Making the most of headers and footers http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/HeaderFooter.htm
 Signature Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit.
> Because of unique needs of my document (230 pages) I am using a manual page > numbering scheme instead of using any of the automated page numbering [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > R Cox Ray Cox - 07 Jan 2006 23:31 GMT If you read my problem closely, you will see that I needed to renumber the pages so that indexing would work correctly, but I didn't want Word to print the page numbers for me, as Word could not match the page number scheme used in edition 1 of a book that we are duplicating.
As I have already numbered the 230 pages manually and it is working perfectly for my purposes (the failure I am doomed to has not occurred), I see no reason to spend more time experimenting with Word to try and duplicate what I have done manually, then to have to return and remove 230 separate text boxes. Yes, it was labor intensive, but we have duplicated the original where MSWord could not, so we have achieved our goal.
I am familiar with headers/footers and their implementation. I read all of the articles you quoted and many more for about 2 hours in trying to find a solution to my situation before I posted my question to the newsgroup.
There are actually times when MS just doesn't have all the (quick) answers, although I did use the Word Help file description on how to remove page numbers and then found out (to my satisfaction) that the page renumbering had remained, which solved my problem perfectly.
> Like Daiya, I think manually numbering pages is doomed to failure, and I > suspect it's possible to achieve what you want in a different way. It is [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >> >> R Cox Suzanne S. Barnhill - 07 Jan 2006 23:40 GMT The first article I cited does indeed answer your question. It explains that a page always has a number even when the number is not printed on the page, and that you can change what this number is using Format Page Number, as you have apparently figured out for yourself.
 Signature Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit.
> If you read my problem closely, you will see that I needed to renumber the > pages so that indexing would work correctly, but I didn't want Word to print [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > >> > >> R Cox Ray Cox - 08 Jan 2006 00:35 GMT It answered only part of my question, which was how to change the page number without having the page number print on the page. If you use either the Format Page Number feature or any of the schemes to enter a normal or formulated page number in a footer area, then it automatically turns on page number printing in the document. There is no single help topic in either the numbering or indexing area, both of which are affected by what I was trying to do, that said "here's how to change the document page number without having the page number print on the page." That took trial and error and hope.
> The first article I cited does indeed answer your question. It explains > that [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] >> >> >> >> R Cox Suzanne S. Barnhill - 08 Jan 2006 01:09 GMT If you use either
> the Format Page Number feature or any of the schemes to enter a normal or > formulated page number in a footer area, then it automatically turns on page > number printing in the document. This is simply NOT true. You can set the starting page number for a section without inserting a page number by using the Format Page Number button on the Header and Footer toolbar. This does NOT insert a { PAGE } field. You can also, if you insist, use the Insert | Page Numbers dialog to do the same thing, provided you click Close instead of OK.
 Signature Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit.
> It answered only part of my question, which was how to change the page > number without having the page number print on the page. If you use either [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > >> >> > >> >> R Cox Ray Cox - 08 Jan 2006 03:21 GMT You are missing the point. It's great that you knew that you could increment page numbers using the Format Page Number button without having them printed in a document. My point is...where is this found in the Help system for those of us who didn't know it?
After several hours of searching, which included many page numbering topics, indexing topics, and even searching specifically for "Format Page Number button," which didn't result in anything specific about what that button does/doesn't do, none of these topics stated that the button, or the method I found and used on my own, could be used to increment page numbering without printing them, so for the non-expert on Word, there is no direct path to find this information without trial and error.
> If you use either >> the Format Page Number feature or any of the schemes to enter a normal or [quoted text clipped - 135 lines] >> >> >> >> >> >> R Cox Suzanne S. Barnhill - 08 Jan 2006 05:22 GMT I'm just pointing out that you said the articles I suggested were of no use to you, and you claimed that you couldn't restart the page numbering without adding a page number to the page, which is not true.
 Signature Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit.
> You are missing the point. It's great that you knew that you could > increment page numbers using the Format Page Number button without having [quoted text clipped - 148 lines] > >> >> >> > >> >> >> R Cox Ray Cox - 08 Jan 2006 06:02 GMT > I'm just pointing out that you said the articles I suggested were of no > use > to you, They weren't...after reading them I still didn't know how to completely do what I wanted to do, as the article didn't explain everything I needed to know. Should I have to read 20 articles to find what I need and spend hours finding it?
>and you claimed that you couldn't restart the page numbering without > adding a page number to the page, which is not true. Again, it is true, because I couldn't do it until you and others told me something that wasn't to be found in it's entirety in the Help system. In my logical way of thinking, if I am to use the Format Page Number button, I'm going to be formatting a page number that either exists or is going to exist (for printing also, as that seems to be the MS focus) after I use that feature. Since I didn't want a printing page number at all, why would I be concerned with formatting it? A direct description of any kind that described what this button did/didn't do would have helped.
Anyway, I'll let you get the last word, as it seems to be something you need. I have a document to finish.
>> You are missing the point. It's great that you knew that you could >> increment page numbers using the Format Page Number button without having [quoted text clipped - 186 lines] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> R Cox Suzanne S. Barnhill - 08 Jan 2006 17:33 GMT Big Idea #3 in the article at http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Numbering/PageNumbering.htm is that every page has a number (which can be changed) whether that number is printed on the page or not.
But the critical issue here is that there is a difference between something being impossible and its being impossible for you because you didn't know how to do it. You stated that "If you use either the Format Page Number feature or any of the schemes to enter a normal or formulated page number in a footer area, then it automatically turns on page number printing in the document." I merely pointed out that this is not true.
 Signature Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit.
> > I'm just pointing out that you said the articles I suggested were of no > > use [quoted text clipped - 210 lines] > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> R Cox
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