MS Office Forum / Word / Numbering / February 2008
Word's Numbering Explained
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GordonP - 02 Feb 2008 20:35 GMT After running into list numbering problems in a 200-page document (using Word 2003), I discovered John McGhie's article on the web "Word's Numbering Explained." Phew! I previously had no idea numbering is such a complex matter.
I've been studying John's article together with some other information on the web and am learning a lot. Thank's John for your clear and detailed explanation of a complex subject.
Two questions:
On Page 12 of John's article, there's a reference to unchecking the Tabs and Backspace Set Left Indent in Tools | Options | Edit. I see that check box in Word 2000 (which I have on my old computer) but the check box isn't in Word 2003. Word 2003 seems to behave as if that check box is checked. How can I turn off that option, as John recommends, in Word 2003?
On Page 15, John says "I recommend that you use the orphan Normal style so that it's not used in the document, and ensure that none of the styles that contain numbering in the document are based upon it." I've puzzled over that sentence for a while, but don't understand what John is trying to convey. Use the Normal style for what? "...use it so that it's not used in the document..."? What does the pronoun "it" (used twice in the sentence) refers to?
I'll appreciate any suggestions.
GordonP
Suzanne S. Barnhill - 02 Feb 2008 22:05 GMT In Word 2002 and 2003, the option is Tools | AutoCorrect Options | AutoFormat As You Type: "Set first- and left-indent with tabs and backspaces."
John will have to chime in on what he means by the latter puzzler, but see http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html for a clear explanation of outline numbering and http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/styles/HowStylesCascade.html for a discussion of the styles issue that John may be referring to; does he recommend basing something on "No Style"?
 Signature Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA
> After running into list numbering problems in a 200-page document (using > Word 2003), I discovered John McGhie's article on the web "Word's [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > GordonP GordonP - 03 Feb 2008 04:02 GMT Thanks, Suzanne, for providing an answer to my first question. I've found the option where you said it is. I wish Microsoft wouldn't make our lives difficult by switching things from one place to another without providing any obvious way to trace such changes.
The two URLs you suggested are interesting, but don't seem to relate directly to the problem I'm trying to deal with. My document contains many sequences of numbered steps that describe how to use Photoshop Elements. In various chapters, I have many sets of instructions, most starting with Step 1. In some places, though, I have a set of instructions that might, for example, contain Steps 1 through 10. Then might come something like, "If, in Step 4, you chose *** instead of ***, then proceed as follows." That's followed by a seies of steps starting at Step 5.
So, what I need, is a way that I can reliably set a list of instructions to start with a specific list number.
Another concern, referred to in John's article, is that a file that works well on my computer would turn up on someone else's computer with completely different numbering.
John refers to this problem at the bottom of Page 24. There he says "I prepared the article in Word 2000, then saved it in Word 2 for Windows format, closed it and re-opened the file. This the simplest way to strip the numbering back to ordinary typed text that won't change no matter where you display it." Word 2003 doesn't seem to provide a way to save a document in Word 2 format. Is there a way I can save the list numbering in my Word 2003 document as ordinary text so that it's not dependent on styles that a person who receives the document might have on her/his computer?
GordonP
> In Word 2002 and 2003, the option is Tools | AutoCorrect Options | > AutoFormat As You Type: "Set first- and left-indent with tabs and [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >> >> GordonP Suzanne S. Barnhill - 03 Feb 2008 04:32 GMT You can convert auto numbering to text, yes. Stefan Blom has provided the following instructions:
To convert autonumbering (paragraph/outline numbering and LISTNUM fields) to plain text, do the following: Make sure the active document is the one you want to convert. Then press ALT+F11 to display the Visual Basic Editor. On the View menu, click Immediate Window. In the Immediate Window, type
ActiveDocument.ConvertNumbersToText
and press ENTER.
Note that if paragraph/outline numbering was applied with styles, it isn't completely gone (CTRL+Q will bring it back!) unless you also clear it from the style definitions.
 Signature Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA
> Thanks, Suzanne, for providing an answer to my first question. I've found > the option where you said it is. I wish Microsoft wouldn't make our lives [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] >>> >>> GordonP GordonP - 03 Feb 2008 05:02 GMT Suzanne:
I greatly appreciate your fast responses to my questions. You're a treasure!
I look forward to following what you suggested. It's getting late at night now and my mind is tired, so I'll try it out in the morning when I'm fresh.
GordonP
> You can convert auto numbering to text, yes. Stefan Blom has provided the > following instructions: [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] >>>> >>>> GordonP Suzanne S. Barnhill - 03 Feb 2008 17:41 GMT Always a good policy!
 Signature Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA
> Suzanne: > [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] >>>>> >>>>> GordonP GordonP - 04 Feb 2008 03:41 GMT Suzanne:
It seems that the further I get into list numbering in Word, the more confused I get -- I'm probably not the only one!
In "Word's Numbering Explained," John refers to List Templates and states that the seven most recently used List Templates are displayed in the Bullets and Numbering dialog box. I see these, and have often been puzzled by the different templates I see each time I display that dialog box. Word doesn't seem to provide any access to List Templates. Where are List Templates saved? Can I access them and control them in any way?
I'm a long-time user of Word since the DOS version first appeared and have mostly been very satisfied with its performance and capabilities. Prior to using the original version of Word, I used WordStar and Multimate -- remember those? At one time, I even had to work with WordPerfect (DOS version) because that was what one of my clients required.
In previous projects, Word's handling of lists did all I needed without a problem. The project I'm working on now requires much more sophisticated handling of lists, so I'm getting quite an education. Thank you and the other MVPs for the information and help you provide.
GordonP
> Always a good policy! > [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] >>>>>> >>>>>> GordonP Suzanne S. Barnhill - 04 Feb 2008 04:39 GMT List templates are beyond my ken. I think they can be addressed directly via VBA, though. The advantage to linking numbering to styles is that you can always be sure of getting the same list by going in through Modify Style for the Level 1 style in the outline list. Also, I think that when you visit Format | Bullets and Numbering, the pane that's selected reflects the list you're using.
 Signature Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA
> Suzanne: > [quoted text clipped - 126 lines] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> GordonP GordonP - 04 Feb 2008 05:06 GMT Thanks for your helpful suggestions and for your acknowledgement that List Templates are beyond your ken. I hope there's someone else who will pick up on this topic and provide us all with some education about List Templates.
GordonP
> List templates are beyond my ken. I think they can be addressed directly > via VBA, though. The advantage to linking numbering to styles is that you [quoted text clipped - 134 lines] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> GordonP Shauna Kelly - 04 Feb 2008 08:40 GMT Hi Gordon
A ListTemplate is a construct saved within a document file. It stores a numbering 'structure'. ListTemplates are exposed only indirectly in the user interface, but they are exposed in the Word object model and can therefore be accessed by VBA and other languages.
Imagine a document with heading numbering set up in the classic way: 1 Europe 1.1 France 1.1.1 Paris 1.1.2 Lyon 1.2 Germany 1.2.1 Munich .... 2 Asia 2.1 Thailand
In this case, you would set up all 9 heading styles (Heading 1, Heading 2, ... Heading 9) in one numbering structure because (eg) you want Heading 2 to start re-numbering from 1 after each Heading 1 (to get 1.1 and 2.1), Heading 3 to start re-numbering after each Heading 3 etc.
That structure is a ListTemplate. The ListTemplate stores which styles go with which of the 9 levels. It stores information about the numbering (roman, arabic), how to display the numbering (eg "Chapter 1" or "1" or "(1)"), how far to indent the numbers, and how they re-start. In short, all the things that are exposed in the Customize Outline Numbered List dialog box.
A ListTemplate may have one level (akin to the "Bulleted" and "Numbered" tabs on the Bullets and Numbering dialog box), or exactly 9 levels (akin to the "Outline Numbered" tab).
We can imagine our document with the text above having exactly one ListTemplate. It has 9 levels, with a heading style attached to each level, and it knows how to display the numbering for the headings. I sometimes think of a ListTemplate as a little wooden box with 9 compartments into each of which we put information about the numbering required for that level.
A ListTemplate may or may not have a name. You can assign a name when you're setting up numbering by using the "ListNum field list name" box. There is some belief that giving a list template a name provides some stability.
So far, so good.
But Word sometimes gets mixed up. It creates extraneous ListTemplates. It gets confused about which one to use. If you don't talk to it nicely, it moves styles around from one little wooden box to another. It tries to put the same style into more than one wooden box. When I copy and paste from one document to another, it isn't quite sure what to do with the information in the wooden boxes. And so on.
For example, before Word 2003, every time you even opened the Customize Outline Numbered List dialog box, Word would create another ListTemplate. Before Word 2002 (or was it 2000?) Word had a limit of the number of ListTemplates it could handle in one document, but no way to 'clean out' all the extraneous ones it had created, causing Word to crash. In some cases, if you click in anything except a paragraph in the style attached to Level 1 of the ListTemplate, Word either creates a new ListTemplate or gets confused about which one it is supposed to be editing. Hence the exhortation to click within a Heading 1 paragraph, even if you want to change the numbering for (say) Heading 4.
None of this is exposed to the user in the user interface. None of it has been documented by Microsoft. And only some of it is exposed in the object model to programmers (eg even in code, you can't delete a ListTemplate). This makes it just a little difficult to know how to manage it all<g>.
Everything any of us have learned about numbering has been through experimentation. John's document is the supreme example of such experimentation.
Finally, let's look at what you see depicted in the 8 panels in the Bullets and Numbering dialog boxes. They're called List Galleries (at least within the object model). They are a mishmash of (a) numbering used at the selection and (b) numbering you have previously used.
When you use a numbering structure, Word stores it in the registry. When you click in a paragraph and open one of the tabs on the Bullets and Numbering dialog, Word displays what it finds in the registry and tries to highlight the one that matches the paragraph in which you clicked. But given the messes that Word ends up in, this sometimes goes wrong.
Word gets particularly confused if, eg, you have all your heading styles in one neat structure, click in (eg) a Heading 3 paragraph and then choose a different one of those ListGalleries. It will apply the first-level number format in your chosen ListGallery to your Heading 3 paragraph, leaving Headings 1 and 2 messed up. Do that a couple of times and you have an irrevocable mess!
Trial and error (and no more - remember, none of this is documented) suggests that the best way to proceed is to reset these panels occasionally, but, if you're modifying the numbering in a document and one of the List Galleries is highlighted, then always use that one.
Hope this helps.
Shauna Kelly. Microsoft MVP. http://www.shaunakelly.com/word
> Thanks for your helpful suggestions and for your acknowledgement that > List Templates are beyond your ken. I hope there's someone else who [quoted text clipped - 147 lines] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> GordonP Suzanne S. Barnhill - 04 Feb 2008 16:04 GMT Thanks for the follow-up, Shauna. The parts of it I use religiously are to always go in through the Level 1 style and to reset the List Gallery periodically.
 Signature Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA
> Hi Gordon > [quoted text clipped - 246 lines] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> GordonP GordonP - 05 Feb 2008 01:05 GMT Thanks Shauna for all the detailed information. It will take me a while to digest it all.
GordonP
> Hi Gordon > [quoted text clipped - 246 lines] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> GordonP GordonP - 04 Feb 2008 04:54 GMT More on the subject of numbering steps in procedures:
I've stuudied John's article and other material carefully, but I atill don't see how to do what I need to do.
The problem is this:
I write a series of steps: 1 through 10.
At the end of that series, I say something like "If you chose ***** in step 4, then proceed as follows."
Then I write a series of steps that needs to start at Step 5.
How do I make that series of steps start with the number 5?
I see information that enables me to to create a series of steps that continue from the previous sequence of numbers or restart from 1, but I don't see a way to start a new sequence from another number such as 5.
Can you offer any help?
GordonP
> Always a good policy! > [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] >>>>>> >>>>>> GordonP Stefan Blom - 04 Feb 2008 14:46 GMT Apply a numbered style to the relevant paragraphs. By default, numbering will continue through-out the document (for paragraphs using that style).
For example, you can apply the built-in List Number style; hold Shift as you press the arrow next to the Style box on the Formatting toolbar, scroll until you see "List Number" and click it. See also http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/styles/ApplyAStyle.html.
Note that you can modify (http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/styles/ModifyAStyle.html) the List Number style to suit your needs.
 Signature Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP
> More on the subject of numbering steps in procedures: > [quoted text clipped - 125 lines] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> GordonP GordonP - 05 Feb 2008 01:06 GMT Thanks, Stefan.
GordonP
> Apply a numbered style to the relevant paragraphs. By default, numbering > will continue through-out the document (for paragraphs using that style). [quoted text clipped - 144 lines] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> GordonP
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