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MS Office Forum / Word / Numbering / June 2004

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Suppress endnotes in Word 97 and Word 2000 for Windows

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Stefan Blom - 10 Jun 2004 13:45 GMT
A number of discussions deal with the matter of collecting all the
endnotes of a document after a specific section, so that you can have
items like a Bibliography and an Index after the notes. The replies
say that there is an option in the user interface of Word 2002 and
later (if we limit the discussion to Windows versions, at least), but
that Word 97 and Word 2000 require a macro.

However, there is an option on the Layout tab of the Page Setup dialog
box available in Word 97 and 2000. In Word 2000 it says "Suppress
endnotes", and it is accessible once the location for endnotes have
been set to "End of section" (as opposed to "End of document"), just
like in Word 2002. So it seems as though the option is indeed
available, at least for Windows versions of Word?

Signature

Stefan Blom

Suzanne S. Barnhill - 10 Jun 2004 22:05 GMT
Who knew? Another one of those improvements no one bothered to tell us
about?

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
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Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
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> A number of discussions deal with the matter of collecting all the
> endnotes of a document after a specific section, so that you can have
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> --
> Stefan Blom
Stefan Blom - 11 Jun 2004 11:17 GMT
Thank you for replying.

I realize that Word has more than its share of undocumented or at
least poorly documented features.  :-)

Perhaps the Suppress Endnotes feature is broken in certain service
releases of Word 97 and 2000?

Signature

Stefan Blom

> Who knew? Another one of those improvements no one bothered to tell us
> about?
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> > --
> > Stefan Blom
Suzanne S. Barnhill - 11 Jun 2004 13:30 GMT
I don't know how anyone would know whether it is broken or not, since I
don't know of anyone who has tried it. I was certainly surprised to know the
check box was there, but when I checked my screen shots of Word 97 dialogs,
sure enough, there it was! Perhaps someone who is still using Word 97 or
2000 could test this and see whether it works the same as in Word 2002/2003.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Signature

Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.


> Thank you for replying.
>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> > > --
> > > Stefan Blom
Stefan Blom - 11 Jun 2004 14:30 GMT
I realize that Word 2000 and (especially) Word 97 are very old
applications (time flies in the software industry!), but if nobody has
tried suppressing endnotes via the user interface in Word 97/2000, how
is it possible to state that the option wasn't available in Word
versions prior to Word 2002?

I guess what you're saying is that the feature is documented in Word
2002 and 2003, which it doesn't appear to be in previous versions, and
that's why people believed it couldn't be done in those old versions.

Signature

Stefan Blom

> I don't know how anyone would know whether it is broken or not, since I
> don't know of anyone who has tried it. I was certainly surprised to know the
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
> > > > --
> > > > Stefan Blom
Suzanne S. Barnhill - 11 Jun 2004 14:44 GMT
It's not so much that it is documented in Word 2002/2003 ("documented" might
be too strong a word) as that it was advertised as a new feature in Word
2002! That's why I'm curious as to whether it really works the same in the
older versions.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Signature

Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.


> I realize that Word 2000 and (especially) Word 97 are very old
> applications (time flies in the software industry!), but if nobody has
[quoted text clipped - 85 lines]
> > > > > --
> > > > > Stefan Blom
Stefan Blom - 14 Jun 2004 09:31 GMT
Well, if it was advertised as a new feature, that certainly explains
why no one would want to test it in earlier versions! Thank you for
clarifying this.

It is odd, though, that Suppress Endnotes is presented as a new
feature in Word 2002. One would expect the Word development team to
know when they have actually created something new... :-)

On the other hand, it's easy to imagine that it happens that a certain
feature are created in an application but not (fully) implemented for
some reason, perhaps because it requires further testing.

Signature

Stefan Blom

> It's not so much that it is documented in Word 2002/2003 ("documented" might
> be too strong a word) as that it was advertised as a new feature in Word
[quoted text clipped - 99 lines]
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Stefan Blom
Suzanne S. Barnhill - 14 Jun 2004 15:26 GMT
I also don't understand why it wasn't touted in the earlier versions since
it's such a self-evidently useful feature. Maybe it was just one of those
things the developers asked for, the coders provided, and the documentation
writers overlooked.

If I search the KB for "suppress endnotes," I turn up four articles. Two
appear to be pretty much irrelevant, but the ones that are relevant are:

"WD97: Suppress Endnotes Option Unavailable"
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=196553

"WD: Suppress Endnotes Option Unavailable"
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=123299

Now the interesting thing about the latter is that the "applies to" section
is as follows:

 * Microsoft Word for Windows 6.0
 * Microsoft Word for Windows 6.0a
 * Microsoft Word for Windows 6.0c
 * Microsoft Word for Windows 95 7.0
 * Microsoft Word for Windows 95 7.0a
 * Microsoft Word for the Macintosh 6.0
 * Microsoft Word for the Macintosh 6.0.1
 * Microsoft Word for the Macintosh 6.0.1a
 * Microsoft Word for Windows NT 6.0

Can anyone with Word 6.0 and/or 95 (Beth?) confirm that the check box exists
there, too?
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Signature

Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.


> Well, if it was advertised as a new feature, that certainly explains
> why no one would want to test it in earlier versions! Thank you for
[quoted text clipped - 137 lines]
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Stefan Blom
Klaus Linke - 14 Jun 2004 16:25 GMT
> Can anyone with Word 6.0 and/or 95 (Beth?) confirm that the check
> box exists there, too?

Word 6: yes (so Word95 very probably also).
WordBasic: FilePageSetup.EndNotes (=0: endnotes displayed, =1: endnotes
suppress ON [endnotes not displayed]).

Seems to work just as in later versions. Duh.
And what's even better: It took me five seconds to locate the help topic
that describes how to suppress endnotes after certain sections, and gives
an example of how to place endnotes after section two of a three-section
document.

Klaus
Klaus Linke - 14 Jun 2004 16:36 GMT
> And what's even better: It took me five seconds to locate the help topic

After I remembered that Word 6 had still a working context-sensitive help
(F1) for dialogs, I was able to cut that down to two seconds ;-)

Klaus
Suzanne S. Barnhill - 14 Jun 2004 21:04 GMT
But Help is so much *better* now! (Not)

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Signature

Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.


> > And what's even better: It took me five seconds to locate the help topic
>
> After I remembered that Word 6 had still a working context-sensitive help
> (F1) for dialogs, I was able to cut that down to two seconds ;-)
>
> Klaus
Stefan Blom - 16 Jun 2004 12:14 GMT
It was in Word 6 already? How old is that version? Ten years?

Signature

Stefan Blom

> > Can anyone with Word 6.0 and/or 95 (Beth?) confirm that the check
> > box exists there, too?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Klaus
Suzanne S. Barnhill - 16 Jun 2004 15:23 GMT
I got Word 6.0 in November 1993, and I'm sure it was not brand-new then (I
never rush to get new versions of anything), though the manual is copyright
1993. In any case, it is *over* ten years old. Every time I refer to my Word
2.0 manual (still the best and most complete) I am amazed to discover that
features I am just learning to use have been in Word at least since that
version. Many of them have acquired much more user-friendly front ends, but
behind the scenes they still work the same way.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Signature

Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.


> It was in Word 6 already? How old is that version? Ten years?
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> >
> > Klaus
Stefan Blom - 17 Jun 2004 11:17 GMT
Thank you for the info.

Signature

Stefan Blom

> I got Word 6.0 in November 1993, and I'm sure it was not brand-new then (I
> never rush to get new versions of anything), though the manual is copyright
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> > >
> > > Klaus
Jean-Guy Marcil - 15 Jun 2004 21:07 GMT
Bonjour,

Dans son message, < Stefan Blom > ?crivait :
In this message, < Stefan Blom > wrote:

|| Well, if it was advertised as a new feature, that certainly explains
|| why no one would want to test it in earlier versions! Thank you for
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
|| feature are created in an application but not (fully) implemented for
|| some reason, perhaps because it requires further testing.

Maybe the confusion stems from the fact that there was a new feature
introduced I believe, in Word 2000 (or 2002 ?). That is: the ability to
control endnote numbering per section, like page numbering (Restart at one,
or some given number, or continuous from previous...). Before, if you chose
to restart numbering at 1 at the beginning of a section than all sections
restarted at 1.
But AFAICT it is flawed.
I experienced the same thing a poster did some time ago. He put it so
clearly, I am going to quote him here:

<quote>
Failed "This Section" continuous Foot/Endnote Numbering

Word has a new feature: one can select, whether the
numbering feature of endnotes and footnotes is to be
applied to the "Whole document" or to "This Section" only.
The problem is: it doesn't seem to work.

Situation:
a) I have a document with 5 sections, each of them has
endnotes (or alternatively footnotes, which doesn't make a
difference)
b) Section 2, 3, and 4 belong to one article. It was split
into three sections, because section number 3, in the
middle of this article, needed a different rendering
(e.g., landscape instead of portrait, or single column in
stead of double column, and similar cases). But because
all three sections belong to one article, I need the
endnotes to be numbered continuously starting with 1 in
section 2 and counted up through and including section 4.
Section 5, however, should again start with 1, as it is a
different article, so is section 1. So I start up with
having all sections restart their endnote numbering with 1
(Restart each section. whole document).
c) If I place the cursor into section 3 and choose
Insert/Footnote/, then select "Endnotes", "Numbering:
Continuous", "Apply changes to: This section", then one
would expect the endnote numbering to continue where the
endnotes had left off in the previous section, section 2.
However, this is not what happens. Word actually pretends
that all endnotes so far, which occurred in the "Whole
document," have been numbered continuously and continuous
from there. For example:
If section 1 has ten endnotes and section 2 has nine, then
the first endnote of section 3 will NOT be 10 (9+1), but
20 (10+9+1).
d) I tried to have section three "restart" with "Start at:
20", but it ignores any start number higher than one. If
entering a start number higher than one with "Continuous"
numbering, it will add this number on top of all endnotes
(here: 20+10+9+1).
That doesn't seem to make any sense. I would greatly
appreciate if it worked, as I frequently have to manually
set pseudo-foot/endnotes to circumvent this, but either I
haven't understood how it works or it doesn't work at all.

(Michael Martin - December 31, 2003)
<end quote>
(see
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=027001c3cfe8%24ab53e4
30%24a301280a%40phx.gbl&rnum=5&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26q%3
Dendnotes%2Bnumbering%26btnG%3DSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dmicrosoft.public.word
.*
for completre thread. BTW, is there a way to post a shortened version of a
hyperlink....?)

I experienced the exact same thing...
Signature

Salut!
_______________________________________
Jean-Guy Marcil - Word MVP
jmarcilREMOVE@CAPSsympatico.caTHISTOO
Word MVP site: http://www.word.mvps.org

Suzanne S. Barnhill - 15 Jun 2004 22:03 GMT
Thanks for the follow-up, Jean-Guy. I think your analysis is probably
correct, and I was really hoping the numbering feature you mention worked,
as I touted it to someone else (perhaps Michael Martin himself) in another
NG.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Signature

Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.


> Bonjour,
>
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
> <end quote>
> (see

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=027001c3cfe8%24ab
53e430%24a301280a%40phx.gbl&rnum=5&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF
-8%26q%3Dendnotes%2Bnumbering%26btnG%3DSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dmicrosoft.p
ublic.word.*
> for completre thread. BTW, is there a way to post a shortened version of a
> hyperlink....?)
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> jmarcilREMOVE@CAPSsympatico.caTHISTOO
> Word MVP site: http://www.word.mvps.org
Stefan Blom - 16 Jun 2004 09:50 GMT
> Maybe the confusion stems from the fact that there was a new feature
> introduced I believe, in Word 2000 (or 2002 ?). That is: the ability to
> control endnote numbering per section, like page numbering (Restart at one,
> or some given number, or continuous from previous...). Before, if you chose
> to restart numbering at 1 at the beginning of a section than all sections
> restarted at 1.

I think you've found the most likely explanation.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

Signature

Stefan Blom

Stefan Blom - 16 Jun 2004 10:00 GMT
FWIW, the feature you mentioned must have been introduced in Word
2002.

At least, I can't see the option in Word 2000. <g>

Signature

Stefan Blom

> Bonjour,
>
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
> <end quote>
> (see

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=027001c3cfe8%24ab53e4
30%24a301280a%40phx.gbl&rnum=5&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26q%3
Dendnotes%2Bnumbering%26btnG%3DSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dmicrosoft.public.word
.*
> for completre thread. BTW, is there a way to post a shortened version of a
> hyperlink....?)
>
> I experienced the exact same thing...
Klaus Linke - 14 Jun 2004 06:25 GMT
Hi Stefan,

I had heard that putting endnotes after some chosen section(s) and
suppressing them after others wasn't possible in Word97 and 2000.
Since it definitely was possible to do it by macro, I felt pretty clever.

Boy do I feel stupid now! Never noticed that option in the page setup
dialog either.

It does seem to work fine in Word2000. I didn't find anything in the help,
but that doesn't mean much (not even that it's not there somewhere).

Regards,
Klaus

> I realize that Word 2000 and (especially) Word 97 are very old
> applications (time flies in the software industry!), but if nobody has
[quoted text clipped - 82 lines]
> > > > > --
> > > > > Stefan Blom
Stefan Blom - 14 Jun 2004 13:21 GMT
Hi, Klaus

> Hi Stefan,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Boy do I feel stupid now! Never noticed that option in the page setup
> dialog either.

It certainly wasn't my intention to make anyone feel stupid... <g>

In the Page Setup dialog box of Word 2000, the Suppress Endnotes
option is placed between the Vertical Alignment box and the Line
Numbers button; when it's greyed out, it's almost invisible. I hadn't
noticed it, either, until I was trying the macro and for some reason
had to look at the Layout tab of the Page Setup dialog box, and there
it was: enabled and checked!

> It does seem to work fine in Word2000. I didn't find anything in the help,
> but that doesn't mean much (not even that it's not there somewhere).

As stated in a previous message, I just wanted to make sure that there
was no known bug with this feature that makes it necessary to use a
macro to suppress endnotes in Word 97/2000. (Of course, the macro
might be useful, anyway, since it sets all options in one go.)

Thank you for taking the time to look into this matter.

--
Stefan Blom
Klaus Linke - 14 Jun 2004 23:23 GMT
> It certainly wasn't my intention to make anyone feel stupid... <g>

Hi Stefan,

Wasn't the first time you did that to me, either <g>

But I don't mind... much, dum-dee-dum!

Regards,
Klaus
Bernie Joiner - 15 Jun 2004 12:32 GMT
Supressing the endnotes does indeed work, but it has another problem.
The Endnotes are renumbered with each section, even if supressed, if
"renumber at each section" is checked.  If continuous is checked, they
are numbered continuously from the beginning of the document.  How can
one get them to number continuously for the section (Chapter), and start
over at the beginning of a new section(Chapter)?

>>It certainly wasn't my intention to make anyone feel stupid... <g>
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Regards,
> Klaus
Doug Robbins - Word MVP - 15 Jun 2004 13:27 GMT
See response to your later post.

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Please post any further questions or followup to the newsgroups for the
benefit of others who may be interested.  Unsolicited questions forwarded
directly to me will only be answered on a paid consulting basis.

Hope this helps
Doug Robbins - Word MVP

> Supressing the endnotes does indeed work, but it has another problem.
> The Endnotes are renumbered with each section, even if supressed, if
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> > Regards,
> > Klaus
Dayo Mitchell - 15 Jun 2004 18:48 GMT
> It certainly wasn't my intention to make anyone feel stupid... <g>

Been out of town, but as a frequent poster of "for Word 2000, post back for
a macro solution" I too will admit my shame....thanks much for the info,
Stefan. Like we don't all know better than to trust Word!

<laughing>, Dayo
Stefan Blom - 17 Jun 2004 10:06 GMT
If anyone should feel stupid, I guess it is the documentation writers
and coders at Microsoft, advertising as a new feature something that
has been around for over ten years...

But I guess that, over a period of time, software code is growing so
extremely complex that it's hard to keep track of it. Maybe that's
also the cause of bugs?  :-)

Signature

Stefan Blom

> > It certainly wasn't my intention to make anyone feel stupid... <g>
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> <laughing>, Dayo
 
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