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MS Office Forum / Word / Printing and Fonts / December 2007PostScript fonts in MsOffice 2007
Dear Mr.Tom Ferguson, I recently read your comments on the MS site - Subject: PostScript fonts & XP-Pro. And found them very comprehensive! I have installed MsOffice 2007 on WIndows XP replacing Office 2003. When I am using 'Gill Sans Cyr MT' font ( PostScript) in theWord and Excel docs. I have the following problem with formatting. When I type in English this font is appear correctly ( means no problems) but when I switch to Cyrillic alphabet the font automatically changes to Times New Roman ( only Cyrillic part I mean) . When I want to format it , selecting the text , pointing the request font Gill.... In the "Change the Font face" window - nothing happened . The font stay Times New...! Only using 'Format Painter' solve my problem ( taking the format from Latin (English) part.),BUT THIS IS NOT THE BEST SOLUTION .When I used Office 2003 every think worked perfectly , now with 2007 doesn't. The same problem occur on my college's PC ( the same installation) . Can you advice me please how I can solve this issue? Regards, Dimitar Gyoshev This might be a case of font substitution. If you are using PostScript fonts, it sometimes happens that the font you want to use does not have the glyphs in the range you want to use (e.g. might have English and Hebrew but lack Cyrillic). To get around this, you must install and use fonts that have the range you need. Things are usually better if you stick to TrueType, Unicode fonts. Hope this helps. Tom MSMVP 1998-2007 > Dear Mr.Tom Ferguson, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Dimitar Gyoshev Sorry, trying to do too many things at once. Let me re-write to reflect what I meant more clearly. This might be a case of font substitution. If you are using Open Type fonts (whether they contain PostScript or TrueType outline data), it sometimes happens that the font you want to use does not have the glyphs in the range you want to use (e.g. might have English and Hebrew but lack Cyrillic). To get around this, you must install and use fonts that have the range you need. Matters become more complex if you are using older, non-Unicode, either TT or PS, fonts. Things are usually better if you stick to OT with TT data, Unicode fonts. Tom MSMVP 1998-2007 {Snip} > Sorry, trying to do too many things at once. Let me re-write to > reflect what I meant more clearly. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > MSMVP 1998-2007 > {Snip} Glad you clarified! This one makes a lot more sense :) Why do you say that things are usually better with OT fonts with TT data than OT with PS data? Unless I'm missing something, the only difference is whether or not any of the outlines have 3rd degree curves, in which case the font must be a PS flavor. Things like unicode compliance and OT feature sets are independent of the OT flavor and can be equally good or bad. - Character The preference I have for those with TT data -vs- PS data has nothing to do with the quality of the data but with the set of glyphs present. Those with TT data tend to have better language coverage. There is no technical reason why that should be so, it is just the present state. It is my impression that the OT fonts with PS data were produced by little more than placing a wrapper around the PS font, so to speak. No doubt that will change as various foundries issue updates and new fonts in that format. Tom MSMVP 1998-2007 >> Sorry, trying to do too many things at once. Let me re-write to >> reflect what I meant more clearly. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > - Character > The preference I have for those with TT data -vs- PS data has nothing to > do with the quality of the data but with the set of glyphs present. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Tom > MSMVP 1998-2007 Yes, some OT font files that are floating around are nothing more than someone (including the original foundry) simply saving it as OT instead of TT or PS. Because TT fonts could already have a larger glyph set than T1 fonts, those sets are carried forward. But I think that you're basing your comments on a somewhat limited sample. In particular, the all-new Adobe Pro series, now out for a couple of years, have the most extensive glyph sets and open type features of anything available. Microsoft's TT-based OT fonts appear to have broader language coverage, while Adobe's PS-based OT fonts have much greater typographic support, with alternate glyphs, extended ligatures, position-sensitive glyph selection, old-style figures, small caps, etc. - Character I agree that Microsoft has placed greater emphasis on cross-language support as opposed to typographic niceties such as those you mention. Indeed, in various conversations with folks in the MS typography department, I have urged more attention to that for whatever small influence I might have. And, of course, my opinion is based on my experience which, like yours and anybody else's, is limited by definition. ;-) But do recall that the OP's issue had to do with language coverage. However, you make fair observation/comment. Tom MSMVP 1998-2007 >> The preference I have for those with TT data -vs- PS data has nothing to >> do with the quality of the data but with the set of glyphs present. Those [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > - Character Gentlemen, Your discussion is very interesting but you whent in another directory too far away from my question! Just for clarification my simple question is over the Office 2007 and usage of PostScript font Gill Sans Cyr MT. 1. This is our Company font ! 2. This font allready worked under Office 2003 ! 3. Cirllic is available in this font ! 4. I will repeit the question again " When I type in English this font is appear correctly ( means no problems) but when I switch to Cyrillic alphabet the font automatically changes to Times New Roman with Cirillic letters (only Cyrillic part I mean) . When I want to format it , selecting the text , pointing the request font Gill Sans Cyr MT In the roll own menu "Change the Font face" window - nothing happened . The font stay 'Times New..'.! Only using 'Format Painter' solve my problem (taking the format from Latin (English) part.),BUT THIS IS NOT THE BEST SOLUTION .When I used Office 2003 every think worked perfectly!!! , now with 2007 doesn't. The same problem occur on my college's PC ( the same installation) . This is the question not what is the different betwin TT and PS fonts!  SignatureDimitar Gyoshev > I agree that Microsoft has placed greater emphasis on cross-language support > as opposed to typographic niceties such as those you mention. Indeed, in [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > > > - Character Sorry, we did drift quite far from the centre of your question. I am quite puzzled. I have very little experience using anything but English, and a bit of French and a few sentences of Gaelic. I have sent off a query and am doing some checking. I'll get back to you here. Tom MSMVP 1998-2007 > Gentlemen, > [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] >> > >> > - Character Check your font directories and see if you have a TrueType version of Gill Sans installed as well as a PostScript version. If you do, copy the TrueType version to a different folder in order to back up the files and then delete the TrueType files. Restart the computer. Test to see if the problem remains. Tom MSMVP 19989-2007 > Gentlemen, > [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] >> > >> > - Character > Check your font directories and see if you have a TrueType version of Gill > Sans installed as well as a PostScript version. If you do, copy the > TrueType version to a different folder in order to back up the files and > then delete the TrueType files +++from the font folder+++ . Restart the computer. Test to see if the problem > remains. > [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] >>> > >>> > - Character Thank you Tom , But I haven't TrueType version of Gill Sans Cyr MT font. Could you advice me with the name of the best software for convert from Postscript to TrueType version ( if any is available),Please? SignatureDimitar Gyoshev > > Check your font directories and see if you have a TrueType version of Gill > > Sans installed as well as a PostScript version. If you do, copy the [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > >>> > > >>> > - Character One reply from my query was "My guess is that there something about the font that doesn’t meet the spec – could be code page or Unicode range bits not being properly set." On that issue, contact Monotype. Check FontLab website for a converter. http://www.fontlab.com/ Check your computer for any variety of Gill Sans in Truetype format. E.g. some Microsoft products ship with one on the CD or DVD and will install it. That version does _not_ have Cyrillic glyphs and if it is being substituted for the MT PostScript font, you would get the result you experience. Tom MSMVP 1998-2007 > Thank you Tom , > [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] >> >>> > >> >>> > - Character Tom, Thank you for the attention and advices. On this way to convert the fonts I will find solution ( probably), BUT ANY HOW THIS IS A BUG IN THE MsOffice 2007 as many others and the hope that Ms will repare it is left! Wish you all the best and Merry Christmas! SignatureDimitar Gyoshev > One reply from my query was > "My guess is that there something about the font that doesn’t meet the [quoted text clipped - 136 lines] > >> >>> > > >> >>> > - Character I hope it works for you. I am not sure that what you are seeing is a "bug" in the strict sense. As I understand the term, a "bug" is a fault or flaw in the system that results in improper operation. Historically, the original "bug" was literally that. A moth had somehow gotten squashed between the electrical contacts of a relay in an main-frame computer and cause a malfunction. Thus, there was a "bug" that caused an error. The term stuck. In this case, I suspect the system is operating as intended. However, there is at least one consequence of that operation-as-designed of the font substitution system, it gives an intended result, the font is substituted according to the rule set; however, you see a failure to render the Cyrillic glyphs properly. So, technically, there is not a "bug" but an unsuitable intended result. But, in a sense, this is hair-splitting. The result is not what you need or want. I would suggest contacting Monotype and seek their advice on changing your corporate font to one that has the look and feel you want and whose files will work with Office 2007 and the operating system possibly an Open Type Gill Sans. All the best. Tom MSMVP 1998-2007 > Tom, > [quoted text clipped - 167 lines] >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > - Character Thank you Tom, I will consult with the Managers to follow your advice for looking for Gil Sans - OpenType . I am not a big font specialist, could you advice me with stipulation of the request for improving the company font, Please! I mean how to formulate them the request 'To buy Gill Sans Cyr Open Type or Trough type ' or..... however is called ???!?? but not PostScript . Help me please. P.S. This historical explanation of the "bug" was funny!! SignatureDimitar Gyoshev > I hope it works for you. > [quoted text clipped - 194 lines] > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > - Character I would first contact Monotype Imaging or other good source to ask them which package would be best for the company's use. Probably, a package of Open Type fonts would serve best. This is one possibility. http://tinyurl.com/39n8zo Be sure to tell them which operating system or systems and applications you intend to use it with. After that discussion, you will better be able to offer the managers good advice. Tom MSMVP 1998-2007 > Thank you Tom, > [quoted text clipped - 245 lines] >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > - Character PS (the writing, not the font format :-)) In the interest of accuracy, I should point out that the incident I referred to actually occurred. It involved Grace Brewster Hooper (born Murray), later Rear Admiral Grace Hooper, Ph D and a principal author of the computer language called COBOL. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper However, the term was in use for failure-caused errors before that and its origin seems lost in obscurity. Tom > Thank you Tom, > [quoted text clipped - 245 lines] >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > - Character |
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