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MS Office Forum / Word / Web Authoring / April 2005

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Gah!  Word KILLED my web site!

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rci - 19 Apr 2005 21:29 GMT
How the heck...

OK, This is what I did:

Win XP Pro,  MS Word 2002

I have a little web site... with an index page and some other pages.

I wanted to create a new web page, and so I thought to copy an existing html
file and simply modify it under a new name.

WELLLLLL.... SOMEHOW Word keeps track of such things, and KILLED the
association of graphics, etc. to the magic folder it creates for such
purposes: ie:  "foo_files"

So when I copied the html file to a new file, it, on it's own, decided to
screw with the ORIGINAL FILE, and basically hozed it.  Even though I never
opened NOR saved the original file, it has a new file modification date.

Now this pisses me off.  I have no idea how to repair this damage!

What can I do?  Is there a safe way to copy a web page without killing the
original?

This is a new level of user hostility that I simply can't handle right
now...

Ug.

Thanks!

SMS
lostinspace - 19 Apr 2005 23:03 GMT
----- Original Message -----
From: "rci" <>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.word.web.authoring
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:29 PM
Subject: Gah! Word KILLED my web site!

> How the heck...
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> SMS

It's not clear to me what your asking for or what you have to work with?

I'm assuming you do NOT have a copy of the original web page prior to
attempting latest change?
If that is so?
Go to Archive ORg
http://www.archive.org/
Insert you URL and see if an old page is listed there.

The Word/Web default of attaching images to a sub-folder that Word creates
is a piss-poor design. Especially these days when most users are dumping
everything they create into "My Documents."
When "My Documents" is used by default, the file paths are incorrect.
In order to create correct relative paths for web pages, your
folder/directory structure MUST duplicate your websites folder/directory
structure.

If you have a URL?
I'll take a look. No guarantees, nor will I spend a lengthy amount of time
there. I will only look for the obvious image path errors your previously
mentioned.

It's a shame that anybody who has used Word for any length of time has not
learned the rudimentary rule of saving back-up copies :-((
rci - 20 Apr 2005 00:33 GMT
Sorry guys... it's an internal site... not accessable to the outside world.

And trust me, the file was hozed without opening it.

Try this:

Make a web page... drag in a pic or two, type some text.

Save it.  Close Word.

Now go to a file expolrer and ctrl-drag a copy of your page... (it will say
something like copy_of_index.html)  It will also make a copy of the _files
directory ("copy_of_index_files").

Now, use IE to view the original index.htm.

It will be hozed.... never opened.

However, the copy_of_index files will work!

How odd...

Regards,

SMS

: ----- Original Message -----
: From: "rci" <>
: Newsgroups: microsoft.public.word.web.authoring
: Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:29 PM
: Subject: Gah! Word KILLED my web site!

:> How the heck...
:>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
:>
:> SMS

: It's not clear to me what your asking for or what you have to work with?

: I'm assuming you do NOT have a copy of the original web page prior to
: attempting latest change?
: If that is so?
: Go to Archive ORg
: http://www.archive.org/
: Insert you URL and see if an old page is listed there.

: The Word/Web default of attaching images to a sub-folder that Word creates
: is a piss-poor design. Especially these days when most users are dumping
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
: folder/directory structure MUST duplicate your websites folder/directory
: structure.

: If you have a URL?
: I'll take a look. No guarantees, nor will I spend a lengthy amount of time
: there. I will only look for the obvious image path errors your previously
: mentioned.

: It's a shame that anybody who has used Word for any length of time has not
: learned the rudimentary rule of saving back-up copies :-((
lostinspace - 20 Apr 2005 03:33 GMT
----- Original Message -----
From: "rci" <>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.word.web.authoring
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: Gah! Word KILLED my web site!

> Sorry guys... it's an internal site... not accessable to the outside
> world.
[quoted text clipped - 96 lines]
> not
> : learned the rudimentary rule of saving back-up copies :-((

SMS,
           I'm not willing to "try" anything with Word related to web
pages.
The last time a similar request was made to me in this NG, I spent an
extensive amount of time to find a solution for that particular user, only
to be informed that the solution which existed in Word/webpages was too
complicated and involved too much time. ("ll provide a link to the archived
thread if it matters?)

Using any WINDOWS procedures to "drag and drop" in creating web pages is a
waste of your time and efforts. Most especially in a software (Word) which
should NEVER be utiliized to create web pages in the first place.

Such things as drag and drop of even copying from Word to FP cannot be done,
because MS drags all the realted fonts, formatting and other garbage which
never should or never was intended to be used in the web page. At least not
in a functional and valid format that would make the pages availble to many
visitors or even retains the proper paths.

Everything begins (at least in correcting web pages) with a URL.
With none, no solution is possible.

I've wasted my time in this NG once again with another visitor only visiting
for this occasion and little chance of becoming a regular participant.

Mr. Buckland?
When will somebody removed this NG?

We have more success in communication with casual Word Web designers in
microsoft.public.word.documanagement
Bob   Buckland ?:-\) - 20 Apr 2005 09:04 GMT
Hi Steve,

I agree that using Windows Explorer to copy
a file that links to other content and not updating
the content to match is a receipe to find an oops <g>

Have you ever tried to actually 'end' a newsgroup :)
the microsoft.public.word.general newsgroup, for example
hasn't been on the MS hosted news servers for at
least five years (if I recall correctly) but it's
still up and active on other servers <g>).

This newsgroup was created when the
Word Internet Assistant was discontinued
as an Add-in to Word (after Word v7) but
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.internet.assistant
is still in place, although thankfully, rarely used :)

When Word 2000 came out MS actually did a fairly nice
job initially of putting on their Office website some 'how to'
content for folks who might use Word as a tool for creating
simple personal websites
 http://microsoft.com/Office/previous/2000/weblife/default.asp
and a good number of ISPs (such as
Yahoo) that provided free/low cost personal web site space
supported the needed Office/FrontPage server extensions that
allowed users to use File=>Export to HTML
(now File=>Save as Webpage=>Filtered) and it was expected
that at that 'phase'/timeframe of folks discovering the
internet and the 'boom was on' cycle that more casual users
would be dropping by, but then the internet boom went bust
along with the 'a web page would be a must for every business
and for every family member' went into, well...  :)

The focus now is moving toward XML within Word as
a more 'universal' transfer format for information
in and out of Word/browsers, etc., but so far the
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.office.xml
hasn't seen much traffic, not for the casual user in
many cases.

This newsgroup isn't in the mainstream of the
'discussion servers' list so at some point it may
be another one that is not carried on the MS servers,
but still may hang around with a life of its own :)

========
Mr. Buckland?
When will somebody removed this NG?

We have more success in communication with casual Word Web designers in
microsoft.public.word.documanagement >>
Signature

Let us know if this helped you,

Bob  Buckland  ?:-)
MS Office System Products MVP

 *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

Office 2003 Editions explained
http://www.microsoft.com/uk/office/editions.mspx

Bob   Buckland ?:-\) - 20 Apr 2005 08:51 GMT
Hi SMS/RCI,

I didn't have any problem using IE on either the
original or the copied .htm file after creating
a copy of the .htm file (and it automatically
copied the folder).  Both were drawing
from the original file folder and both were
still accesible.

In this case it could be a bit of a Windows settings
issue and a bit of how Word is using XML to manage
the content.  Using File=>Save as Web page and using
a new file name in Word rather than use Windows
explorer to make a copy would have achieved a
better result.

If you have used Windows Explorer and in
Tools=>Folder Options=>view  have turned on a setting
for 'Managing Web Pages and Folders' other than
'Show both parts and manage them separately then
copying the .HTM file will also copy the folder.

The .HTM file has a pointer to the 'filelist.xml'
file with reference to a specific file name in
a specific folder. Making a copy of the HTM file
and the folder doesn't change the content of the
HTM file or of the filelist.xml file in the original
folder, so Word is still pulling from the content
it was told to use.  If you turn off the
Tools=>Options=>General setting to have the files
for a web page in a separate folder than the filelist.xml
refers to specific files in the same folder as the
.HTM file so copying all of the files would not need
to modify the content of the .htm or .xml file
as it would still be pointing to a relative location
of the .htm file.

In your Word file are you using a setting for hyperlink
base in File=>Properties?

=========
lostinspace <lostinspace@123-universe.com> wrote:

Sorry guys... it's an internal site... not accessable to the outside world.

And trust me, the file was hozed without opening it.

Try this:

Make a web page... drag in a pic or two, type some text.

Save it.  Close Word.

Now go to a file expolrer and ctrl-drag a copy of your page... (it will say
something like copy_of_index.html)  It will also make a copy of the _files
directory ("copy_of_index_files").

Now, use IE to view the original index.htm.

It will be hozed.... never opened.

However, the copy_of_index files will work!

How odd...

Regards,

SMS >>

Signature

Bob  Buckland  ?:-)
MS Office System Products MVP

 *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

lostinspace - 20 Apr 2005 13:04 GMT
Bob,
         Here's a link to that old thread on path solutions of files and
NOT using the default sub-folder creation method.
I'm not willing to go through (time spent) these types of solutions for
casual visitors to this NG, which don't stay long enough to reciprocate
their thanks to other casual visitors.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/microsoft.public.word.web.authoring/browse_t
hread/thread/7525c8133f834950/e59f527f1f7fcd05#e59f527f1f7fcd05

Bob   Buckland ?:-\) - 20 Apr 2005 00:11 GMT
Hi RCI/SMS,

As lostinspace mentions, if we saw the URL we
may be able to take a look, but Word has no
ability to change a page you didn't save,
but relocating the file can confuse it if
when you open it there isn't a URL location
in File=>Properties=>Hyperlink base
to linked files.

If your file, created in Word was named index.htm
then then the matching folder it created would
be named index_files.  If your file was foo.htm
then you'd have foo_files, etc.

If you copied the original file that had a link in
it to the original name then didn't use File=Save As
to new name you may have updated the original linked
filelist.xml file Word stores the links in.

You can have Word put the related graphics in the
same folder as the HTM file through using
Tools=>Options=>General=>[Web Options]

========
How the heck...

OK, This is what I did:

Win XP Pro,  MS Word 2002

I have a little web site... with an index page and some other pages.

I wanted to create a new web page, and so I thought to copy an existing html
file and simply modify it under a new name.

WELLLLLL.... SOMEHOW Word keeps track of such things, and KILLED the
association of graphics, etc. to the magic folder it creates for such
purposes: ie:  "foo_files"

So when I copied the html file to a new file, it, on it's own, decided to
screw with the ORIGINAL FILE, and basically hozed it.  Even though I never
opened NOR saved the original file, it has a new file modification date.

Now this pisses me off.  I have no idea how to repair this damage!

What can I do?  Is there a safe way to copy a web page without killing the
original?

This is a new level of user hostility that I simply can't handle right
now...

Ug.

Thanks!

SMS>>

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